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Old 06-02-2008, 08:13 PM   #1
squarepusher
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Default Running stock P5M in H22 Civic - Engine Starting Problems

heres a kind of technical question, I wasn't sure to run it to the lude forum, or the hybrid one. Basically, I have a 96 (OBD2 native) Civic, which has an H22 (97+) swap put it, running OBD2->1 conversion. The current engine is from a 97+ lude, but the reason it was set up to run OBD2->1, since the car and current engine are both OBD2, has to do with the previous engine was an early model H22 pre 95 (lost compression) and had to be replaced, so the newer H22 was put in still keeping the conversion harness to OBD1 and it was running a P13 ECU, thats standard for the older H22 engine ...


so, now im trying to get the car REFFED/Barred in California, and there is no way I can run an OBD2->1 conversion. So, I bought a P5M m/t which is the newer H22 native ECU. Since the 1996 Civic that its in is already OBD2, I can just trash the conversion harness and go strait OBD2 ...

now, heres my problem. I plugged in the P5M ECU today, took off the P13 and conversion harness, the engine would crank, but not start no matter how long I help the key to the 'start' position.


Seems really odd, since in my opinion this would point to something wrong with the fuel table, but its a P5M and I dont know why it wont start with the H22 ...


anyways, if anyone has any idea why it wont start with this P5M ecu, id appreciate the expertise. I am going to try more things tommoro and hopefully I can figure something out :/

ok thanks if anyone can help!
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Old 06-02-2008, 08:19 PM   #2
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Default Re: Running stock P5M in H22 Civic - Engine Starting Problems (squarepusher)

the P5M is from 97+ which has an immobilizer i believe.
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Old 06-02-2008, 10:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: Running stock P5M in H22 Civic - Engine Starting Problems (dagle)

I didn't even know about immobilizers, but it seems this is most likely the problem.

From my research, I have to get an immobilizer disable kit, from Doctronic the AO mobilizer board.

35 euro comes out to about $55, plus international shipping, still a lot less then a dealer overhaul for immobilizer system, which I think prices around $600 since u have to match up the ignition, ECU and engine immobilizer systems. I'm not even sure if they would do it on a hybrid swap either ...


sadface =[ hopefully this mobilizer board will fix it
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Old 06-03-2008, 12:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: Running stock P5M in H22 Civic - Engine Starting Problems (squarepusher)

do u know where u got the P5M from? and why not just get a OBD2 P13 from a 96'
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Old 06-03-2008, 03:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: Running stock P5M in H22 Civic - Engine Starting Problems (dagle)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagle
do u know where u got the P5M from? and why not just get a OBD2 P13 from a 96'
wow my reply got axed

your post led to to research more, and it appears you are spot on

ECU Types and Numbers
P13 : 93-95 OBD-1 Prelude VTEC
P13 : 1996 OBD-2 Prelude VTEC
P14 : 93-95 OBD-1 Prelude Si non-VTEC
P14 : 1996 OBD-2 Prelude Si non-VTEC
P5M: 97-01 OBD-2 Prelude Base
P5P: 97-01 OBD-2 Type-SH
P5P : 97-01 OBD-2 Prelude Type-S (JDM)

There is a P13 1996 OBD2, I assume its pre-immobilizer also, which would do the job good. Unfortunately, from what I have heard these are extremely rare ECU's to come by. I'm not sure how good my luck will be with that. So, it appears from my options I can do the following

1) get the 1996 P13 OBD2 ECU, no immobilizer
2) get the mobilizer override chip and solder it in
3) maybe somehow modify an OBD2 P72, however if I am getting it reffed, I'm not sure how much they inspect the ECU as to if it matched up exactly. I know having conversions is a no-no 2->1, but maybe and OBD2 P72 woudn't catch anyones attentino
4) ... talk to my local ref station, and get some more info on options I have with my situation. See how nice or lenient they will be if I am making lots of efforts


my other option was to get it passed as smog as a 1996 civic ... I've heard an H22 can pass emissions on a civic if you put some special CAT on right before the test, like a long truck cat (not sure how that would fit on though). This would require some more tweaking with the cat, and doesn't even guarantee a pass.

I'm kind of steering away from illegal smog, 1) I dont know anyone 2) seems kinda expensive for something shady which might be a rip off, or if a cop pulls me over I might get asked for ref anyways.

Anyways! good tips on the immobilizer, and 96 P13 OBD2 (the phantom ECU! =]) I'd love to get one of those so ill check some classified online now ...

btw: The P5M i just got, was from craigslist, which I got shipped cross country for $100. It arrived today, I happily unplugged my OBD2->1 harness, plugged this in, then it didn't start ... didn't even think of the immobilizer beforehand. I guess aftermarket ECU market its pretty dead then post 1997, considering the cost to rekey/code the ECU is gunna run a few hundred at least, and probably has to be done at the dealer.
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:31 PM   #6
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Default Re: Running stock P5M in H22 Civic - Engine Starting Problems (squarepusher)

Refs are supposed to check the ecu to make sure it matches the engine, but I have gone to several and they never even touched it....I wouldn't take a chance though.

As for the cat, I used an OEM ITR cat when I got BAR'd and it worked great.

Good luck getting BAR'd. Click the image to open in full size.
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