Anybody found a good spot to flush-mount tweeters in the front?
05-05-2008, 01:34 PM
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Anybody found a good spot to flush-mount tweeters in the front?
Like the title says... I'm looking to replace some components that came w/ the car. Right now the tweeters are hanging off of the door panels. I'd like to find a spot to flush mount the new ones. Has anybody drilled into that vertrical trim piece below the windshield? Looks like there should be some room there...
05-05-2008, 04:39 PM
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Tried the audio forum. There was one thread that was a similar situation, but all of the picture links were broken. I posted here because my question has more to do with the 88-91 interior than anything else.
I don't know that the crank hole would be the ideal location...
I don't know that the crank hole would be the ideal location...
05-05-2008, 05:56 PM
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Re: (Servo)
k if your concerned bout your sound....then what ever you do..dont seperate your tweeter from your midrange.. keep them as close together as you can.
one idea is to make yourself some kickpods out of fiberglass. that way you can direct the speakers to your liking and it'll sound great to your liking.
i wouldnt be drilling into factory panels making them look bad, and making holes for your tweeters when you can make your speakers look so much better and sound that much better.
plus with kickpods you can achieve some good mid bass if you know how to tune things correctly.
hope this helps.
one idea is to make yourself some kickpods out of fiberglass. that way you can direct the speakers to your liking and it'll sound great to your liking.
i wouldnt be drilling into factory panels making them look bad, and making holes for your tweeters when you can make your speakers look so much better and sound that much better.
plus with kickpods you can achieve some good mid bass if you know how to tune things correctly.
hope this helps.
05-06-2008, 01:39 AM
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Re: Anybody found a good spot to flush-mount tweeters in the front? (Crx Jimmy)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crx Jimmy »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">switch to power windows and you will have a nice round hole left for a tweeter 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
they'd have to be jdm doors, and they still might not even have them.
you can try to custom fab some eg power door panels, but good luck with that
</TD></TR></TABLE>they'd have to be jdm doors, and they still might not even have them.
you can try to custom fab some eg power door panels, but good luck with that
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05-06-2008, 10:49 AM
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Re: Anybody found a good spot to flush-mount tweeters in the front? (Servo)
As has been mentioned, keep the tweeter on the same plane as close to the mid as convenient, in front of the handle is a very good spot.
If the tweeter is small enough you may be able to install them on the mirror "sails".
94
If the tweeter is small enough you may be able to install them on the mirror "sails".
94
05-06-2008, 05:42 PM
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Thank you for the replies, guys. Help me understand this if you don't mind...
Why is it important not to separate the mid & tweeter? Phasing? My intent was to move the tweeters up in order to raise the sound stage.
My wife's car had a professionally-built system in it when we bought it. It placed second in a national competion. The tweeters in that car are placed on the sides of the windshield defroster (and meant to bounce sound off of the windshield).
BTW, I started this thread in the 88-91 Civic forum so I didn't state the type of car. It's my cheap DD 91 Civic DX hatch. It has a set of poorly-installed components w/ a blown mid driver. Keyword is cheap. I don't mind spending the time on custom mounting, but I don't want build an expensive/steal-able system.
Thanks again for the help, all.
Why is it important not to separate the mid & tweeter? Phasing? My intent was to move the tweeters up in order to raise the sound stage.
My wife's car had a professionally-built system in it when we bought it. It placed second in a national competion. The tweeters in that car are placed on the sides of the windshield defroster (and meant to bounce sound off of the windshield).
BTW, I started this thread in the 88-91 Civic forum so I didn't state the type of car. It's my cheap DD 91 Civic DX hatch. It has a set of poorly-installed components w/ a blown mid driver. Keyword is cheap. I don't mind spending the time on custom mounting, but I don't want build an expensive/steal-able system.
Thanks again for the help, all.
05-08-2008, 07:31 PM
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Re: (Servo)
In the scenario where mids and highs are not close to one another you may end up with what some call the "rainbow" effect. Upper part of rainbow are highs and then a distinct change in regards to where the sound is emanating from occurs in the midrange or rather the middle-part of the rainbow.
With that said though my current setup is a set of Dyn 340's with tweeter in a-pillar, mids in kicks and woofer in door. Definitely not the first design choice from a theoretical perspective but to be honest there's only been 3-4 tracks where it was noticeable that highs were coming from dash and mids at lower torso level. With that said though.....a lot of this boils down to how well-trained your ears are. The difference in sound stage when I set a .8 millisecond delay to left speakers was amazing...totally threw the stage out to the front of my hood and sounded so much better for the driver. On occasion though I've changed the delay so it's better for the passenger but they couldn't tell the difference.
Something else though that I don't see discussed that often is the polar response map of speakers. This will give you some indication how well your tweeters will perform when mounted on or off-axis. If you've got a tweeter that's designed for off-axis performance yet is mounted in a location that faces you.....not desirable. For instance, in a home setup speakers are generally designed for on-axis listening.....sit front and center and you'll hear the best sound. Place the speakers where they're firing towards each other and then sit front and center......I'd say get ready for some crappy sound. In a car environment off-axis listening is the norm of course so speakers are generally designed to provide better off-axis sound....to what degree though? Well, that's where seeing a polar response map can be helpful because you'll see the pattern of sound radiation from a 360 degree view of the speaker. Check out this link…there’s a few graphs and actually some good info here http://www.mcsquared.com/speakers1.htm
I've actually never had the opportunity to listen to a set of well-designed or even badly-designed kick panel enclosures though. I'd much rather like to be using time-alignment to fix small issues here and there rather than solely relying on delays to fix the negative effects of your typical door mounted tweets and mids.
Guess I’m kinda in your situation at the moment because I’m also trying to figure out where I want to mount my front speakers. I went and bought a small roll of Velcro, stuck one side to back of tweeter and stuck the other side to potential install positions, listened and made a few mental notes of differences between various mounting locations. I’m only doing this with my tweeter though because I know I don’t have the skills to fabricate a kick panel enclosure so I’m keeping things easy for the moment and just using stock locs in door for mids.
Depending on how much effort you want to put into your install though and serious you want to get about the system consider building a small enclosure for your mids/woofer that could also allow a tweeter to be easily mounted & unmounted. This puts your mid/woofer in a situation where it’s in an environment for which it was designed rather than, for instance, operating in free air during a test of where to mount speakers.
I know some of this may sound overboard but car audio has been a hobby of mine since I was probably 12. What I mentioned above is how I’m going to approach the re-install of the system in my TypeR once I get done with my truck install. And because I’m somewhat biased as to the wrongs and rights of various mounting locations/angles/etc which can be used to mount a speaker I’m actually going to ask a friend to spend a day with me, give them instructions on how to mount my test-enclosure in maybe 3-4 different potential locations and have them randomly select install locs while I'm blindfolded and let me listen and take a few notes. Based on my notes I’ll then say “ok….tell me where the speakers were installed for test #3 because that’s what sounded the best to me” and that'll pretty much be the deciding factor as to where I mount my speakers.
If you're dead-set on a top-quality install I'd probably recommend doing a few sound checks prior to finalizing your decision on where you want to install your speaks. Maybe flush-mounting in a-pillar gives you the most pleasing sound or maybe come to find out the tweets sound better when they're on-axis/facing you. I do know one thing I'm gonna play around with in my R is how things sound like when I've got the tweet wedged between dash and windshield with a tweet that has better-than-average on-axis performance. Although almost everything I've read about reflection of sound is generally way over my head I think it'd be fun to play around with various install locations and see if depending on a tweets characteristics if the reflection of sound off of windshield adds or detracts from sound quality if I'm heading towards the direction of a-pillar mounting locations.
In regards to phase and mounting distance what really clicked for me other than the generic "one speaker is moving in and the other is moving out" was someone making a reference to a sine wave displayed on an oscilloscope and that a speaker being out of phase is not by default a 180 degree difference such as you'd see if speaker leads were reversed.
So if I envision my speaker sending a sine-wave like signal to my ear by default do I assume that the frequencies being reproduced by speakers that are 4", 10" and another that's 12" away (let's say we have a 3 way component set) all arrive at my ear at, for instance, the peak of a sign wave? Or am I receiving sound from a particular speaker that's because of <x, y, z> reasons is maybe 90 degrees out of phase yet the point in time in which both speakers were requested to reproduce a note occurred at the same time? I'm by no means an expert on all this stuff and I'm just about over my head at the moment but there's actually a high-end car audio manufacturer...Sinfoni.....who makes a product called the Phaser Pro and it's key selling point is its ability to adjust speaker phase from 0 to 180 degrees
Modified by thekid03 at 9:49 PM 5/8/2008
With that said though my current setup is a set of Dyn 340's with tweeter in a-pillar, mids in kicks and woofer in door. Definitely not the first design choice from a theoretical perspective but to be honest there's only been 3-4 tracks where it was noticeable that highs were coming from dash and mids at lower torso level. With that said though.....a lot of this boils down to how well-trained your ears are. The difference in sound stage when I set a .8 millisecond delay to left speakers was amazing...totally threw the stage out to the front of my hood and sounded so much better for the driver. On occasion though I've changed the delay so it's better for the passenger but they couldn't tell the difference.
Something else though that I don't see discussed that often is the polar response map of speakers. This will give you some indication how well your tweeters will perform when mounted on or off-axis. If you've got a tweeter that's designed for off-axis performance yet is mounted in a location that faces you.....not desirable. For instance, in a home setup speakers are generally designed for on-axis listening.....sit front and center and you'll hear the best sound. Place the speakers where they're firing towards each other and then sit front and center......I'd say get ready for some crappy sound. In a car environment off-axis listening is the norm of course so speakers are generally designed to provide better off-axis sound....to what degree though? Well, that's where seeing a polar response map can be helpful because you'll see the pattern of sound radiation from a 360 degree view of the speaker. Check out this link…there’s a few graphs and actually some good info here http://www.mcsquared.com/speakers1.htm
I've actually never had the opportunity to listen to a set of well-designed or even badly-designed kick panel enclosures though. I'd much rather like to be using time-alignment to fix small issues here and there rather than solely relying on delays to fix the negative effects of your typical door mounted tweets and mids.
Guess I’m kinda in your situation at the moment because I’m also trying to figure out where I want to mount my front speakers. I went and bought a small roll of Velcro, stuck one side to back of tweeter and stuck the other side to potential install positions, listened and made a few mental notes of differences between various mounting locations. I’m only doing this with my tweeter though because I know I don’t have the skills to fabricate a kick panel enclosure so I’m keeping things easy for the moment and just using stock locs in door for mids.
Depending on how much effort you want to put into your install though and serious you want to get about the system consider building a small enclosure for your mids/woofer that could also allow a tweeter to be easily mounted & unmounted. This puts your mid/woofer in a situation where it’s in an environment for which it was designed rather than, for instance, operating in free air during a test of where to mount speakers.
I know some of this may sound overboard but car audio has been a hobby of mine since I was probably 12. What I mentioned above is how I’m going to approach the re-install of the system in my TypeR once I get done with my truck install. And because I’m somewhat biased as to the wrongs and rights of various mounting locations/angles/etc which can be used to mount a speaker I’m actually going to ask a friend to spend a day with me, give them instructions on how to mount my test-enclosure in maybe 3-4 different potential locations and have them randomly select install locs while I'm blindfolded and let me listen and take a few notes. Based on my notes I’ll then say “ok….tell me where the speakers were installed for test #3 because that’s what sounded the best to me” and that'll pretty much be the deciding factor as to where I mount my speakers.
If you're dead-set on a top-quality install I'd probably recommend doing a few sound checks prior to finalizing your decision on where you want to install your speaks. Maybe flush-mounting in a-pillar gives you the most pleasing sound or maybe come to find out the tweets sound better when they're on-axis/facing you. I do know one thing I'm gonna play around with in my R is how things sound like when I've got the tweet wedged between dash and windshield with a tweet that has better-than-average on-axis performance. Although almost everything I've read about reflection of sound is generally way over my head I think it'd be fun to play around with various install locations and see if depending on a tweets characteristics if the reflection of sound off of windshield adds or detracts from sound quality if I'm heading towards the direction of a-pillar mounting locations.
In regards to phase and mounting distance what really clicked for me other than the generic "one speaker is moving in and the other is moving out" was someone making a reference to a sine wave displayed on an oscilloscope and that a speaker being out of phase is not by default a 180 degree difference such as you'd see if speaker leads were reversed.
So if I envision my speaker sending a sine-wave like signal to my ear by default do I assume that the frequencies being reproduced by speakers that are 4", 10" and another that's 12" away (let's say we have a 3 way component set) all arrive at my ear at, for instance, the peak of a sign wave? Or am I receiving sound from a particular speaker that's because of <x, y, z> reasons is maybe 90 degrees out of phase yet the point in time in which both speakers were requested to reproduce a note occurred at the same time? I'm by no means an expert on all this stuff and I'm just about over my head at the moment but there's actually a high-end car audio manufacturer...Sinfoni.....who makes a product called the Phaser Pro and it's key selling point is its ability to adjust speaker phase from 0 to 180 degrees
Modified by thekid03 at 9:49 PM 5/8/2008
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