New OEM Brake Upgrade Option -- S2000 & RSX Type-S -- Installed, Tested, & Reviewed

[MLBZ521]

Edit: 12/8/08 - User dk4ever listed much of the missing info from the Spec Sheet. (Thanks! ) 10/1/08 - Restructured the Review, updated and removed some items. 3/17/08 - Added a Spec List for Brake Parts.. I'm going to try to continue to update this thread as I gain info. Update: 10/1/08 - JDM H22A and built M2F4 with LSD & FD swapped in during the summer, so I've been driving around the last few months on this setup. Really enjoying it and the extra power compliments the brakes I feel, but it has been awhile since I drove on the stock brakes.. But personally I think the pedal feel is perfect.. -------------------------------------------------- Well, I've been very busy the last few months and haven't gotten around to doing this review. I’ve told a few about my planned setup and that I finished it, so time to share with the rest of you guys. I noticed a few guys did brake upgrades or cleaned up their brake setups over the Holiday's also. I did this Upgrade over my Christmas Break. I drove my car from AZ, to my parents house in MS just to do this and some other work while I was out of school. I wanted to do a full How-To Write Up, but I was in a rush when I started installing this Setup as I put it off until the week before I was about have to head back to AZ.. So I wasn't able to take pictures of the entire process. Unfortunately on the way back to Phoenix I stopped off in Tucson for a few days and my engine started to knock and I believe I Spun a Bearing. So I couldn't drive the car any more.. Anyways, I digress. If you haven't done a brake job before, please please do the research, ask questions, and READ your Car's Manual Brake Replacement Procedures MULTIPLE times before trying to tackle this. This swap isn't very complicated. Nothing should be different than doing a stock replacement. Disassemble the brakes exactly how it is detailed in the Manual then Reassemble the brakes exactly how it is detailed in the Manual using the Parts you're replacing. So, I had been considering doing a brake upgrade for a little while now.. Since my stock brakes were starting to squeal, I figured it would a good time to do an upgrade since it was time to do a brake job. I was looking at the OEM Brake Upgrades that we're able to utilize: the NSX and Legend GS Two-Piston Caliper Setup. I've read tons of reviews and how-to's over the years, and then all the treads that pop-up when someone asks about them. We all know the problems with these options. They all have their Pro's and Con's. NSX Calipers can be hard to come by and can be very expensive, but since they're made out of aluminum they're said to be much lighter. The Legend Calipers can also be hard to come by sometimes, but they have bigger pistons but weight more than the NSX Calipers. I considered just going to the bigger VTEC Setup from my Si Setup to save money and most say that's all you'll really need. But then I came across guys swapping S2000 Calipers and RSX Type-S Rotors on Civics and Integra’s. So I started talking to the guy that was selling some of these setups to see if this would work on a Prelude.. So I said what the heck, why not try this for all the Prelude guys.. Since so few of us will actually spend the money to try something that we're not sure of... Requirements For Installation: 4thGen: Luckily the 2006 RSX Type-S Rotor's center bore is hub centric to the 4thGen Prelude's Hub. The RSX Rotors will need to be redrilled to a 4x114.3 Bolt Pattern. This Setup is so big, that 16" Wheels are almost required. There are only a few 15" Wheels that will clear this setup. And imagine that, the wheels I bought a couple months before were one of the few that will clear the Calipers. 5thGen: The 5thGen Prelude's hub is Larger than the 4thGen, so a rotor with the Larger Hub will need to be used. The 99-00 Acura RL has a 11.8" Rotor with the same center bore as the 5thGen Hub, but it is 28mm thick, so if the S2K Rotor is thinner (I believe they're 25mm, but not 100% sure.), the pads will need to be trimmed slightly. The Few Problems/Issues that had to with the Brake Setup: The Retainer Screws do not line up and can not be used. This isn't a big deal though, they're not required, the wheel holds the rotor in place. The Clearance between the Dust Shield and the Rotor. I just had to slightly bend it back and then had plenty of clearance. The Clearance of the Caliper and Wheel. The Wheel Barrel cleared the Caliper, but my wheels were balanced with Tape Weights and these were in the way. I had them re-balanced with bang-on or Lip Weights and that fixed the problem. Other than that, I don't remember any other issues. My Setup: Front: S2000 Calipers & Brackets 2006 RSX Type-S Blank Rotors 11.8" Re-Drilled to 4x114.3 S2000 Axxis Metal Master Pads Prelude Stainless Steel Brake Lines Rear: Stock Calipers Stock Sized Blank Rotors Axxis Metal Master Pads Stainless Steel Brake Lines Wheel Spec's: Sprint Hart CP-F's wrapped in BFGoodrich KDW2 Rubber held on by Project Kic's R26 Lugs & Locks Sizes: 205/55/15 covering 15x7 & 15x7.5 +42 Caliper Comparison: The S2K Caliper is smaller than the Si Caliper. And the Si Caliper is smaller than the VTEC Caliper. So imagine the S2K Caliper Compared to the VTEC Caliper. I wish I had one to compare it too at the time. Yes, this Rotor is only .7" bigger than the VTEC Rotor, but keep in mind I have an Si with 10.2" Rotors. Old Si Caliper compared to New S2K Caliper. Old Si Bracket compared to New S2K Bracket. Installation Comparison: Driver Side Passenger Side S2K Setup Installed on Driver Side S2K Setup Installed on Passenger Side Wheels over S2K Setup Driver Side Wheels over S2K Setup Passenger Side Caliper to Wheel Barrel Gap Talk about filling up that space behind the wheel.. Please disregard the dirty wheels, a few thousand miles of driving cross country without being cleaned.. Technical Information: Here are Spec's for the Related Material that has been mentioned throughout this Review. Hopefully we can find all this information and complete this Spec Sheet. *Thanks to User dk4ever for much of this info! S2000 Caliper Piston Size: 2.0" Weight: Approx. 9.5lbs (Loaded) Rotor Diameter: 11.8" Width: 24mm Bolt Pattern: 5x114.3 Hub Size: 70.3mm Height: 39.6mm Weight: '06 RSX Type-S Rotor Diameter: 11.8" Width: 25mm Bolt Pattern: 5x114.3 Hub Size: 64.2mm Height: 46.99mm(47mm) Weight: NSX NA1 Caliper Piston Size(s): 40mm and 36mm Weight: Approx. 12lbs Unloaded (Caliper + T28 Bracket, Info from Televator) Rotor Diameter: 11.1" inch Width: 28mm Bolt Pattern: 5x114.3 Hub Size: 70mm Height: 35.9mm Weight: NSX NA2 Caliper Piston Size(s): 40mm and 36mm Weight: Rotor Diameter: 11.7" inch Width: 28mm Bolt Pattern : 5x114.3 Hub Size: 70mm Height: 36mm Weight: Legend GS Caliper Piston Size(s): 42mm and 38mm Weight: Rotor Diameter: 11.1" Width: 28mm Bolt Pattern: 5x114.3 Hub Size: 70.2mm Height: 47mm Weight: Prelude S & Si Model (4thGen) Caliper Piston(s) Size: Weight: Rotor Diameter: 10.2" Width: 23mm Bolt Pattern: 4x114.3 Hub Size: 64.3mm Height: 47.2mm Weight: Prelude VTEC Model (4thGen) Caliper Piston(s) Size: Weight: Rotor Diameter: 11.1" Width: 23mm Bolt Pattern: 4x114.3 Hub Size: 64.3mm Height: 47mm Weight: Prelude (5thGen) Caliper Piston(s) Size: Weight: Rotor Diameter: 11.1" Width: 25mm Bolt Pattern: 5x114.3 Hub Size: 70.2mm Height: 47mm Weight: '99 - '00 Acura RL Rotor Diameter: 11.8" Width: 28mm Bolt Pattern: 5x114.3 Hub Size: 70.3mm Height: 47.2mm Weight: '06 Acura RL 3.5L Brembo Style 4-Pot Calipers Piston Size(s): Weight: Rotor Diameter: 11.8" Width: 28mm Bolt Pattern: 5x114.3 Hub Size: 70.2mm Height: 50mm Weight: '08 Acura TL Type-S MT (AT is Different) Brembo Style 4-Pot Calipers Piston Size(s): Weight: Rotor Diameter: 12.2" Width: 25mm Bolt Pattern: 5x114.3 Hub Size: 64.2mm Height: 45mm Weight: Modified by MLBZ521 at 9:14 PM 3/17/2008 Modified by MLBZ521 at 2:23 AM 3/18/2008 Modified by MLBZ521 at 2:17 PM 10/1/2008

This ad is not displayed to registered or logged-in members. Register your free account today and become a member on Honda-Tech!

[PirateMcFred]

That's pretty cool. Good write-up. An OEM 11.7" front rotor system.

What's the difference in the rotor thickness over the other Prelude setup?

It's nice to have some tech again.

*edit* i looked up the RSX thickness: 25mm
the Prelude Si nonVTEC is 23mm


Modified by PirateMcFred at 6:27 AM 3/12/2008

[richlude]

nice write up, when i did my 5 lug swap, i also used the 5th gen calipers, the braking power is much greater but i would love to see how much more effective those are!

[mgags7]

...must....steal....wheels....



Good writeup home-diddly

How do you like the metal masters? Loud?

[Hawkze_2.3]

Good stuff

So did they bolt up to the Prelude knuckle?...or did I miss that part?

[LukieLuc]

[MLBZ521]

Originally Posted by PirateMcFred

That's pretty cool. Good write-up. An OEM 11.7" front rotor system.
What's the difference in the rotor thickness over the other Prelude setup?
It's nice to have some tech again.

*edit* i looked up the RSX thickness: 25mm
the Prelude Si nonVTEC is 23mm

Thanks Pirate! And thanks again for finding that info also.

Originally Posted by mgags7

...must....steal....wheels....
Good writeup home-diddly
How do you like the metal masters? Loud?

Thanks Matt
Haha.. They're really dirty right now.. I really need to clean them up..

Honestly I don't remember hearing much noise from them, but I haven't paid much attention to them.. I've had mch more noise coming from my engine compartment that was getting worse and worse.
Also, haven't been able to tell about dust either.. Since I drove cross-country my wheels got very dirty and I haven't cleaned them, so I can't review that either.. But I'll be sure to keep an eye out once I get the car back on the road and the wheels cleaned..

I was planning on getting the Axxis Ultimates, but ImportRP.com didn't have them in stock for the S2K Fronts, so I went with the next set down. That's the main reason I tried them.. No other defining reason.. I'll probably try different pads each time I switch them, for now at least..

Originally Posted by Hawkze_2.3

Good stuff

So did they bolt up to the Prelude knuckle?...or did I miss that part?

Thanks Brandon. You were one of the ones I noticed cleaned up your Calipers.. I wanna do that to mine now.. The Rear Calipers are all nasty compared to the cleaner front S2K's now.. Heh

Yea, the S2K Caliper & Bracket bolt right up to the 4thGen Knuckle with no Problem at all, wouldn't even be able to know these weren't made for a Prelude. I used Prelude Specific Stainless Brake Lines and had plenty of slack with them also.

[MLBZ521]

More fun stuff!

The guy that I discussed and got this setup from, has just finalized a setup to use the '06 RL Four-Piston Calipers onto a 12.6" Rotor that will work on 4th & 5thGen Prelude. Now that is a OEM Big Brake Kit. But 17" Wheels are required, which I'm not to crazy about running..

And another good point, these setups can be used on a 4thGen with either a 4-Lug or 5-Lug Swap.

[TheMuffinMan]

Gorgeous setup.

I actually just finished the NSX Caliper swap on my Accord not too long ago but this definitely looks like an option for us as well.

But looks like RoH conversion definitely necessary.

(my setup: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/2193006 )

[.BigSexy]

good write up Zack

[BUILT93ludeSi]

not to be that guy butttt, how much did the setup cost? Looks nice and would def be insterested in doing something like this...

[MLBZ521]

Originally Posted by TheMuffinMan

Gorgeous setup.
I actually just finished the NSX Caliper swap on my Accord not too long ago but this definitely looks like an option for us as well.
But looks like RoH conversion definitely necessary.
(my setup: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread/2193006 )

Thanks! What do you mean by RoH Conversion?

Originally Posted by .BigSexy

good write up Zack

Thanks Cory!

Originally Posted by BUILT93ludeSi

not to be that guy butttt, how much did the setup cost? Looks nice and would def be insterested in doing something like this...

Honestly, it depends.. What parts you want, which brand, what type, etc.
If you piece this together, this is what you'll be looking at:
S2K Calipers, I'm not sure how much these go for, so whatever Supply and Demand says they are.
RSX Type-S Rotors, what brand? Blank? Slotted? Drilled? - Yes, you can still use Cross-Drilled and/or Slotted Rotors on this. And then have them redrilled, which shouldn't cost much.
What Pads you want? OEM, Aftermarket? Type?
Do you want SS Lines also?

So it depends. I would say it shouldn't be much more expensive than the Legend Two-Piston Caliper Setup nor much more than the cost of just a set of NSX Calipers themselves.
But it probably will be more than just a 4thGen VTEC or 5thGen Setup.

[my9thtry]

Do you know how big the piston is on the S2000 caliper?

[TheMuffinMan]

Originally Posted by MLBZ521

Thanks! What do you mean by RoH Conversion?

Accords are Hub over Rotor by factory, so looks like for us we'll need to convert first to Rotor over Hub and then go with the RSX-S rotors and S2K calipers

[vlang29]

how do you think your rims compare (internal clearance wise) to the stock 15x6.5 alum? if you had to remove the stickyweights to get yours to clear, i have a hunch that a stock wheel isn't going to make it.. Awesome write-up, for originality

[MLBZ521]

Originally Posted by my9thtry

Do you know how big the piston is on the S2000 caliper?

I have a rough estimate from using a tape measure, but I'll try to find out for sure..

Originally Posted by TheMuffinMan

Accords are Hub over Rotor by factory, so looks like for us we'll need to convert first to Rotor over Hub and then go with the RSX-S rotors and S2K calipers

Ah! Ok then. Yes, that would need to be done.

Originally Posted by vlang29

how do you think your rims compare (internal clearance wise) to the stock 15x6.5 alum? if you had to remove the stickyweights to get yours to clear, i have a hunch that a stock wheel isn't going to make it.. Awesome write-up, for originality

Thanks man! I'm pretty sure these CP-F's have more clearance than my Stock Sawblades.. I can check though to be sure soon. Whenever I get to washing the wheels I'll try that.. I doubt they will though, there's only a handful of 15" wheels that I've read that will work. 16" has plenty of clearance then.

Oh and that's another thing, I doubt the stock Spare Wheel will work either...

[my9thtry]

Tape measure will work what cha got??

[Mike95lude]

Nice
and thanks for your business

I didn't realize the RSX-S rotors were that much bigger than the 4th gen VTEC, but it's true, just looked up the specs myself. I figured they would be about the same size.

[ProjectBB6]

Zack ftw! now help me out with my setup

[dumkopf]

I'm curious. Would this setup work with S2000 rotors? I wish we could get a comparison of this vs. a VTEC setup. I'd like to know how much better the brakes are. Also, a little off topic but related to brakes at least. Do you need the caliper bracket to swap to VTEC brakes or can you use the standard Si ones?

[vlang29]

Originally Posted by dumkopf

can you use the standard Si ones?

vtec rotors are bigger, thus Si brackets won't work

[MLBZ521]

This is a rough measure, it's probably not exact...

Originally Posted by Mike95lude

Nice and thanks for your business
I didn't realize the RSX-S rotors were that much bigger than the 4th gen VTEC, but it's true, just looked up the specs myself. I figured they would be about the same size.

Ah! I knew there was someone else I meant to tell about this.. I remember talking to you and you being the only one answering phones at the time. And thank you Mike for the words and for the quick order and shipment of parts. to ImportRP & Mike, real nice guy to deal with.

Originally Posted by ProjectBB6

Zack ftw! now help me out with my setup

Thanks Frompa or whatever your name is or you go by since you change it all the time. I pwn j00 in CS:S. What Setup do you want to do? I'll definitely help buddy.

Originally Posted by dumkopf

I'm curious. Would this setup work with S2000 rotors? I wish we could get a comparison of this vs. a VTEC setup. I'd like to know how much better the brakes are. Also, a little off topic but related to brakes at least. Do you need the caliper bracket to swap to VTEC brakes or can you use the standard Si ones?

I'm not sure on the S2K Rotors, I'm trying to find out info on them to check.. Heh, I can only compare them to my Stock Si Setup, and I think they're much better.. Once I fix the Soft Pedal and get the car back on the round, I'll put them to the test to find out for sure..
I think I understand what you're trying to ask, but if not, check this thread that recently came up for info: http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=2248723

[my9thtry]

It looks to be right at two inches. Weird because Lude brakes are supposed to have 2 1/4" brakes if i remember right. Smaller piston but bigger rotor? That just doesnt seem right.

[Import RP]

Some more info, according to the specs I have, the S2000 Front Rotors are 11.8". So its only 1/10" larger than the RSX-S Front Rotors.

[Televator]

This is what you were trying to tell me! Sorry man I was too tangled in JDM tightness yo! You've been a busy man, and you've done a good job. This is much cooler than the legend swap you were considering. did you get any weights on the calipers by chance? NSX ones are actually still pretty heavy. About 12 pounds if memory serves me right.