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Old 02-28-2008, 11:03 PM   #1
DailyDriverCivic
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Default Automatic To Manual Swap...

I started my auto to 5-speed swap last night, and wanted to give a heads up to anyone planning this swap! I have searched and ran into many threads covering this swap, but not one mentioning the snafu I ran into while doing mine last night.

My goal last night was to get the pedal cluster in so the car could still be driven until I could put the actual trans in (This sat. if all goes as planned). The car that I am doing this in is a 90 EX sedan. The donor car was a 90 DX hatch. There are many differences in the 2 pedal clusters from the differently equipped vehicles (Aside from the additional pedal obviously). There is added componentry for the cruise control, and the gas pedal pivot point is about 1/4" different in position on the cruise control car compared to the non CC car. I worked with what I had since I already had torn the car apart, and cut/welded as needed (While also filling/smoothing and re-drilling the gas pedal pivot points). It was easy to see where the hole needed to be drilled for the new pivot as the CC piece I cut off of the old pedals, fits in where the pivot is, and actually has a slotted hole so that same weld on piece can be welded onto either pedal cluster. But had I known this ahead of time, I would have looked for an LX or EX 5-speed pedal cluster, and I recommend you do the same to ease your swap. I will post my results at the end of my swap along with all parts I needed to use to make it work successfully. I hope to have it finished saturday.

I will update this original post with a complete list of what all I needed so there can be a complete source for those searching, as I came up with none of this info after reading through about 20 threads on the topic.

UPDATE: Here is a list of everything I used to do the automatic to manual swap in my 1990 Civic EX sedan:

-5 Speed Transmission

-Clutch/Pressure plate/Flywheel/Hardware

-Clutch cable

-Manual pedal assembly with same options as your car (Cruise control for example)

-Front, side, and rear transmission mount brackets from 5 speed car, and the actual mount for the rear (Regardless of what people say, it is not needed to drop the rear x-member to do this rear mount, but if you don't have a decent set of tools, you may have to do this to get to the rear bolt.)

-I used the axles from the 5-speed because mine were toast, and I am assuming that you need them, but am not sure, I will edit this when someone confirms.

-I was able to retain my stock throttle cable, but I had to built a pedal assembly out of the auto and manual one (Lots of cutting/welding), and ended up using the auto throttle pedal, so I am unsure if it is common to re-use the same throttle cable, again, I will edit this when someone confirms.

-I used the stock auto speedo cable with no issues.

-Connect the 2 larger black wires that go to the shift position switch in the automatic. These wires are for the starter. In the auto car, they are only connected when the car is in nuetral or park. Solder these two wires together and heat shrink. Use a butt connector if you want to just ghetto rig it together.

-If you have cruise control, the pink wire going to the shift indicator switch is supposed to be wired through the clutch pedal switch. On the auto car, it indicates that the shifter is in a forward gear, and not in P,R, or N. That switch breaks ground when the clutch is pressed and kills the cruise control. You can just ground this wire under the center console, and cruise will work again, but if you press the clutch while in cruise mode while driving, the motor will rev trying to accelerate! I suggest you hook up the 2 wires on the clutch pedal switch to this pink wire and ground for it to be hooked up and operate properly.

-You will get a code 19 and a "check engine light". This is for the torque converter lock up solenoid on the PS9 auto ECU (For my D16A6 Motor anyway, the 1.5 may have a different auto ECU). The car will still run and drive fine, but getting the manual ECU for you car, and cutting off the auto wiring from the harness will eliminate this issue.

-You will need to ground the Green/White wire from the shift indicator switch, this indicates that the car is in "park", and will allow you to remove the ignition key. The alternative is to swap to the 5 speed ignition switch, but you may not want to end up having separate ignition, and door keys if your car currently uses one key.

-There will be a small hole (about 2x8"'s or so) left over in front og the 5 speed shifter when you are done. This was for the auto shift cable to go through the floor. It is best to just remove the metal piece that was originaly in that hole, and make a new panel out of a flat piece of sheet metal. You should just attatch it to the bottom of the car with self tapper sheet metal screws, pop rivets, or something, making sure to put seam sealer around the perimiter of the plate you just made prior to attatching it. It should be undercoated after the seam sealer has dried. This will make for a permanent fix for that hole.

-I will update as I recall other things. I want this to become a true "go to" source for people doing this swap in the future with all of the needed info.



Modified by DailyDriverCivic at 2:15 PM 3/8/2008


Modified by DailyDriverCivic at 5:13 PM 3/10/2008
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:51 AM   #2
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (DailyDriverCivic)

I am a little surprised that the EX pedals are so different. I just did a pedal swap into my crx lastr night as well and had no trouble at all. Good luck with the rest of your swap.

I am swapping from d15 to d16z6, from auto to manual, from dpfi to mpfi and from obdo to obd1 in one fell swoop Click the image to open in full size. So far everything is going really well!
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:21 AM   #3
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (s1267712)

im swaping my pedels right now lol for a 91 dx sedan auto hope i dont run in to troble thank got a got a 91 integra pedle set with cruse controll lol just incase lol
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Old 02-29-2008, 12:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (mario_pic)

Why not be safe and always hunt for the same model but 5 speed???

If i had a crx auto i would not buy pedals from the sedan just to be safe....i would look for crx 5 speed pedals.

Common sense things guys!
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Old 02-29-2008, 03:07 PM   #5
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (alscrx)

so basically... cruise control equipped auto pedals swaps with cruise control equipped manual pedals
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Old 02-29-2008, 07:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (whoa its len 2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alscrx
Why not be safe and always hunt for the same model but 5 speed???

If i had a crx auto i would not buy pedals from the sedan just to be safe....i would look for crx 5 speed pedals.

Common sense things guys!
Well, that isn't common sense, because that is not what makes them different. It is the CC option. The whole donor car was given to me for free, so I used it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoa its len 2
so basically... cruise control equipped auto pedals swaps with cruise control equipped manual pedals
Yes, from what I can tell, that is the deciding factor.
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Old 03-02-2008, 01:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (DailyDriverCivic)

Well, It drove tonight, and drove well. After the trans was in, all I had to do to bypass the ignition key interlock, was to ground the Green/White wire that went to the original automatic indicator position switch for "Park" indication. And I had to connect the 2 heavy gauge Black/White wires together that also connected to that switch (They only allow the car to start if the car is in park/nuetral in the automatics). The cruise control does not work yet because I have to wire the clutch switch to the pink wire on the cruise control unit (Clutch switch disengages the pink wire from ground when depressed). Other than that and that the shift linkage slightly rubs the exhaust sometimes, all went well. A few minor adjustments, and it will be as it is meant to. I am a bit suprised at how the shift tunnel had to be modded to make the shifter work (Seems like Honda would have lost money on making 2 different un-needed versions of the tunnel depending on transmission. But it only took about a half hour to put in the parts from the donor to make the tunnel work (Drilling spot welds and such to get the part out of the donor). Plus I have a check engine light on (Assuming due to the trans no longer connected to the ECU any more, but I will verify what the code is when I have a chance, and will post the fix for it when sorted). Will update as I sort the details.
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:44 AM   #8
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (DailyDriverCivic)

wow Click the image to open in full size., glad my EX is a 5speed. that would have been a pain.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (DailyDriverCivic)

props on the work Click the image to open in full size.


a pic tutorial would be sweet too Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:18 AM   #10
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (whoa its len 2)

another difference is between years. the older civic/crxs throttle cable mounts to the pedal differently than 90-91. i had to do a little ghetto-rigging with some zipties to get mine to work, but its been running fine for over a year now
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Old 03-02-2008, 12:17 PM   #11
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (Heylookits shawn)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heylookits shawn
another difference is between years. the older civic/crxs throttle cable mounts to the pedal differently than 90-91. i had to do a little ghetto-rigging with some zipties to get mine to work, but its been running fine for over a year now
Mine was different between the 2 1990 EF's as well (Assuming because one has cruise). But after making a pedal cluster from the 2 different clusters, I ended up with my stock gas pedel portion back. I have the stock spring loaded cable holder in the car now. I am gonna make a refined list of what all actually had to be changed once I verify that the cruise is fixed after I wire in the clutch pedal. I will note wire colors as well.
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (DailyDriverCivic)

i just did my 5 speed conversion to my 91 civic dx 4dr and i had to drop the cross member to get the new rear mount in to replace the old auto one the dam conversion thread never mentioned that lol well its in just wateing on my front motor mount now im planing my y7/y8 mini me swap and hydro tranny thats going to be fun
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (mario_pic)

i did my hatch from auto to manual and the actual tranny swap with shift linkage was cake compared to those damn pedals...ugh NEVER again am i doing pedals in ef's Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 03-04-2008, 08:59 AM   #14
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (mario_pic)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mario_pic
i just did my 5 speed conversion to my 91 civic dx 4dr and i had to drop the cross member to get the new rear mount in to replace the old auto one the dam conversion thread never mentioned that lol well its in just wateing on my front motor mount now im planing my y7/y8 mini me swap and hydro tranny thats going to be fun
It wasn't mentioned because you dont have to do that. I used a 1/4" extention and socket to get to the back bolt. It is tight, but doable.
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Old 03-04-2008, 09:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap... (s1267712)

Quote:
Originally Posted by s1267712

I am swapping from d15 to d16z6, from auto to manual, from dpfi to mpfi and from obdo to obd1 in one fell swoop Click the image to open in full size. So far everything is going really well!
Did that last summer with my friend's car. just switch d16z6 to jdm d15b. Wiring is the most annoying part
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Old 01-08-2010, 09:23 AM   #16
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap...

well im going to do this swap hopefully soon, but i will be removing the whole dash to get to my pedals to stop any hardships i might have to endure, i recommend removing the dash for it would be easier, just unbolt the steering wheel, unbolt the dash, unscrew the wiper and turn signal arms an remove one pin from the door catch and your done, your dash will come out with ease, I had to remove my old dash from my old 4 speed dx hatch i used to have, and it was cake to get to everything after the dash was removed

but be forewarned, you must remove your dash slowly and smartly, do not force it and DO NOT BEND IT or try any variation there of. Also since the catch has been released from the door do not open the door to fast.
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Old 07-30-2010, 07:53 AM   #17
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap...

I finished my 91 wagon auto to 5 speed last night. Was not to hard at all. The job took about an hour thats including the wiring of the two large black wires and the grounding of green/wite wire.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap...

im swapping an 89 lx auto to a 5 speed. does ne one no if i can use the auto axles or are they diff than the 5 speed? also when i put the pedal cluster on do i have to take off the dashboard?
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap...

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Originally Posted by gnxpro24 View Post
im swapping an 89 lx auto to a 5 speed. does ne one no if i can use the auto axles or are they diff than the 5 speed? also when i put the pedal cluster on do i have to take off the dashboard?
The axles are the same...you do not need to remove the dash, just drop the steering column down.


back to the very first post by the OP, I actually drove my auto crx with manual pedals in it for over a year before I got enough time off work to finish my swap and conversion...it was fun but anyone who drove my car was super duper confused
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:51 AM   #20
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap...

wat do i do for the cable that attaches to the clutch pedal? theres only a hole for it to go throught the firewall on the 5 speed donor car not on my auto car
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:14 PM   #21
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap...

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wat do i do for the cable that attaches to the clutch pedal? theres only a hole for it to go throught the firewall on the 5 speed donor car not on my auto car
the hole is there. its just sealed up from factory. you punch it out. i used to run my 0 guage amp wire through it till i did my auto to man conversion
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Old 09-14-2010, 02:53 PM   #22
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the hole is there. its just sealed up from factory. you punch it out. i used to run my 0 guage amp wire through it till i did my auto to man conversion
is that a crx? mine is a sedan and theres no sign watsoever of a hole, theres even a plate on the inside of the car that has a lip and an extra bolt for the cable and the manual pedals
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Old 09-14-2010, 03:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap...

yes that is a crx. it could be different i suppose. i have never delt with a sedan before.. but i know honda ususally has everything there, its just not used... sometimes they are hard to distinguish.
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Old 09-15-2010, 05:08 PM   #24
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Default Re: Automatic To Manual Swap...

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is that a crx? mine is a sedan and theres no sign watsoever of a hole, theres even a plate on the inside of the car that has a lip and an extra bolt for the cable and the manual pedals
i know on a 89 hatch there was no hole. all i did was make a template to measure where the hole was and the drilled it out. it worked fine i had no issues at all
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Old 09-15-2010, 06:25 PM   #25
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i know on a 89 hatch there was no hole. all i did was make a template to measure where the hole was and the drilled it out. it worked fine i had no issues at all
today i spent about 6 hours working on my car, got the support bar with the tunnel in it (hole for clutch pedal cable) then i drilled out all the spot welds from the two plates and got that support bar out and bolted it into my car then drilled through the firewall form the support bar tunnel and filed it down, then finally got the pedals in, then all was smooth sailing
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