0morgan@synapse motorsport

First we would like to thank Dan(Turbodano here on HT) for allowing us the use of his test unit, without this the comparison never would have happened.

My first thought upon looking at the turbo was that it is definitely larger compared to the GT3076r, and you can see that in the pictures below. The turbine on the s256 is significantly larger than the opposing gt3076r, as is the Exducer on the compressor due to the extended tip technology I gather. The S256's 56mm inducer is 1mm smaller than the 30r’s 57mm inducer. The Borg Warner also comes packaged with a .50 A/R compressor housing vs. the Garrett’s .60 A/R t04e housing, both featured a ported shroud.

Here are some measurements I took of the turbos:

Borg Warner S256:

.50 A/R compressor housing
Compressor Inducer 56.0mm
Compressor Exducer 85.95mm
Turbine 75-76mm (odd number of blades couldn’t put a caliper directly on it just a ballpark figure)

Turbo with .70 A/R 4 bolt housing: 21 lbs
Turbo with .85 A/R 6 bolt housing: 23.2 lbs

Garrett GT3076r

Compressor Inducer 57.0mm
Compressor Exducer 76.14mm
Turbine 59.90mm

Turbo with .63 A/R 4 bolt housing 15.0 lbs
Turbo with Tial .63 A/R v band stainless housing 11.2 lbs

The turbos were tested on my personal motor, here are some of the specs on the motor:

block:
benson sleeved 84mm
earl assembled
9:1 cp pistons
pauter rods
acl bearings
stock crank

head:
applied flow port and polished and built
ferrea 1mm over valves
crower springs/retainers
84mm reshaped combustion chambers to 44cc
5 axis cnc headwork
ITR cams

turbo setup:
garrett gt3076r .82 a/r
garrett core 12x12x3.5 intercooler
2.50" intercooler piping
synapse motorsport front mount manifold
synapse motorsport 3" downpipe
tial 44mm wastegate
tial 50mm bov

stock ignition

other stuff:
victor x IM,
BDL 70mm TB,
competition stage 5 sprung clutch
AEM fuel rail
AEM filter
AEM fpr
walbro 255 stock lines
precision 1000cc injectors
kteller 3" with magnaflow muffler
fluidyne radiator
arp head studs
oem GE 84mm HG

here are a few pictures comparing the size of the two turbochargers.

30r on the left BW on the right.



30r on the left BW on the right.


30r on the left BW on the right.


30r on top BW on the bottom


BW on the left 30r on the right


BW on the left 30r on the right


30r on the left BW on the right.


Here is the BW housing around the 30r turbine wheel you can see the difference in area around the turbine.


few shots of the car on the dyno this morning expect more later.

ryan swapping out the BW for the garrett



Modified by mike@synapse motorsport at 2:47 PM 2/10/2008

boosted k20

in for results

B20luda

Cool comparison...Go 30R!! (just cause i have one)

fast2camciv

this should be some interesting fuel for a debate ive been having with some of my nissan friends, in for results!

B18Flip

Go 30R! LOL...i have one too Can't wait for the results

0morgan@synapse motorsport

Results are in:

Tests were all done today back to back, there were no changes in the tune whatsoever as both turbos were making the same power at the same boost levels. we used c16 fuel for these dyno runs.

the BW used a .70 a/r turbine housing.
the Garrett used a .82 a/r turbine housing.

dyno comparison at 20psi GT30r is the solid line BW 256 is dotted


green line is boost, blue line is torque


Comparison at 22-23psi GT30r is solid BW is dotted


green line is boost, blue line is torque


both turbos at 24psi dropping off to 23-22psi boost is holding out better on the gt30r but the bw is making a little more power


green line is boost, blue line is torque


in conclusion overall the gt30r consistantly spooled 300-400rpms sooner at each boost level. the borg warner made similar power and at the higher boost levels made slightly more power. either turbo would be a great choice for someone looking to make 450-500+whp. stayed tuned for video footage of the dyno, were still figuring out the software on this new camera windows vista ftl.

kseitz1

Interested in seeing results. I was thinking of going with the 30r. Would also like to see difference in spool time to.

philafelman

wow, these turbos are very comparable...slightly more power from the borg, but slightly less lag from the garrett. they both seem like very good choices...i dont know if i missed it, but what is the price difference between the two?

simply

great info.

Schister66

Its good to see results from this finally...now to send both turbos to a BW Distributor for another run...just giving you **** Mike

It would be nice to see a few really high boost runs to see where each turbo chokes off....they should be pretty close, but the BW doesn't seem to come into its element as much until you really push it.

Mike for taking the time to do this

kseitz1

WOW! I was writing my post and by the time i finished results were in.
Think ill take the 30r, for the quicker spool on the street.

sp00led

Great test Mike

Thanks for putting in the work to get these results. These threads are what make honda-tech such a good resource.

TDogg Teg

The Garrett's power and torque curves seem to be a little more linear, also.

TDogg Teg

Awesome comparison, nonetheless! I agree with Adam, it would be interesting to see how the two compare at their near or maxed levels.

0morgan@synapse motorsport

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its good to see results from this finally...now to send both turbos to a BW Distributor for another run...just giving you **** Mike

It would be nice to see a few really high boost runs to see where each turbo chokes off....they should be pretty close, but the BW doesn't seem to come into its element as much until you really push it.

Mike for taking the time to do this </TD></TR></TABLE>

if we have more fuel we would have liked to take both higher but im still running stock lines and a 255.

Schister66

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rota92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Awesome info guys!

Have Dan send a 258 over to see how much more you can get, and at what price as far as spool time goes </TD></TR></TABLE>

That would probably be a good comparison....the S258 has a more efficient compressor wheel which may add a few ponies to the graph of the S256. Either way, they're fairly evenly matched. My turbo will be a little slower to spool since i have the baller .70ar V-band housing

zex_cool

whats the price difference ? and is the BW rebuildable ?

B18Flip

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rota92 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pretty much indentical pricing, and the BW is re-buildable

That's the #1 selling point over the GT series right there IMO</TD></TR></TABLE>

plus you don't need water lines...adds up if you're using earls

AspectIndustries

Nice. Each has their own high points.

Garrett - Not taller then the BW, which is a plus for tight spaces. + Quicker Spool
BW - Rebuildable

Good stuff.

Schister66

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AspectIndustries &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice. Each has their own high points.

Garrett - Not taller then the BW, which is a plus for tight spaces. + Quicker Spool
BW - Rebuildable

Good stuff. </TD></TR></TABLE>

The .70ar V-band turbine housing is a lot more compact if you're worried about space issues

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18Flip &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

plus you don't need water lines...adds up if you're using earls</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good tests. We've had plenty on other applications, but not honda..

I LIKE IT!!

blinx9900

thanks for sharing, great thread

boosted b5

finally the test complete. i remember seeing that BW sitting on the counter at the shop.. try to talk Stallmer into a borg warner turbo.. i bet you could.

nowtype

GT3076R is a clear winner for anyone looking at performance vs street-ability. A lot more power available while the turbo is spooling. Probably due mainly to the smaller turbine wheel but it shows that Garrett was able to pair a small turbine wheel with a large compressor wheel and make great power. If you are looking for throttle response, the GT30 clearly wins this battle by a lot. Drag racing, the BW unit is a better choice simply because it is less expensive and rebuild-able and in drag racing throttle response isn't really a priority.

blinx9900

perhaps a dumb question but i dont know a damn thing about the BW turbos, the S256 that was tested in this thread, was that a ball bearing turbo?