My roadracing K24/K20 hybrid build thread

[PirateMcFred]

A friend and I have been accumulating the parts for a decent 2.4 liter K-series build for the last year and we've finally got down to brass tacks and will have the engine assembled shortly. I don't really know what to expect in terms of power but I hope it's much better than the K20A that this build will be replacing. 250-265whp would make me pleased as pie but I won't hold my breath until we get the rest of the parts together for the final tune. The object is to get a much fatter powerband for road racing. Please don't ask me what it does in the quarter. I don't intend to find out. General specs: K24A4 block deburred, sanded 99mm OEM crank (to be polished) China forged rods OEM bearings 87.5mm Wiseco pistons 12ish:1 compression ratio K20A2 oil cooler Baffled K20A oil pan K20A2 oil pump w/ radiused galleys K20A2 head w/ new guides and valve job. OEM valves Supertech springs and retainers. IPS 8620 K2 cams PRC (JDM ITR) intake manifold 50˚ VTC cam gear New K20Z top cam chain guide RDX 410cc injectors OEM Type-R 10# FW and clutch (Tilton twin disk didn't work out) OEM NTS3 6-speed gearbox with helical LSD Custom axles Crappy 4-1 ram horn style header 2.25" mandrel bent exhaust (installing a custom 4-2-1 x ø2.5" later) The K20A2 head came off a hydrolocked 2002 longblock that I picked up locally for $350. The exhaust guides were shot so after buying a bunch of OEM replacement parts from Bert-O it's got a valve job and new guides. While the head was apart we knocked off a couple highspots but it's unported otherwsise. The K24 shortblock was bought from 6spd_EK at a pretty damn good price even shipped cross-country; about $400 less than I could find locally. There are some engine bay space limitations and as such we'll be limited to a smaller selection of manifolds. The RBC intake manifold won't fit without extensive modification so we'll be using the PRC until we deem that some other testing is necessary. I've been offered the Hytec casting for testing but first things first. And the usual pictures: Weird K24 oil pump/balance shaft assembly. This engine is pretty clean. Crank exposed Lots of extra parts waiting to be assembled. Flat lapping the lower cassette Checking that the heating process for the valve guide installation did not warp the head. It's flat within .0005". God, I love precision inspection tools. :drool: Head cleaned up and inspected for proper valve guide installation height. New OEM dual valve spring seats since they were scavenged for another K20A build. Valves lubed and installed DIY valve spring compressor Valve train assembled. We left a couple pieces uninstalled for partial assembly and clearance checking. K2 cams Tilton FW/Clutch packaage (it's 20 pounds lighter than an OEM H22 assembly ) OEM 62mm throttlebody, tapered. Nothing important just a little attention to detail. If I get a chance I'll bore out the IM for a 64-66mm TB. I just need the time and motivation. Before and after shots of the pistons on the exhaust side. Needed a little cleaning up. I'm supposed to pick up the block today and then hopefully we can get some things sorted out. I'll be chucking up the crank for some polishing on the rod and main journals soon. I'll take pics as necessary and post them up since that's what the All Motor Forum loves. That's all for now. -Pirate *edit* Found a new hosting service. Modified by PirateMcFred at 7:15 AM 9/19/2008

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[gsrob]

Your build looks like it is well underway. I didn't see anywhere that you said what kind of car it is going in, just that it it replacing another k20. Good luck with the build and getting your HP numbers!

[JDM_JNKY]

damn I wish I never sold my k-frank. oh well never thought I'd have the $$ to knock it out by years end. But your proj. seems to be coming together well. best of luck w/ the RR. I hear k-series love to eat up piston rings.

[salman]

Good luck man...

In for the HPS...

[b18avtec(A!!M0TOR)]

nice build that shit is goin to make some good pwr

[98vtec]

Originally Posted by gsrob

I didn't see anywhere that you said what kind of car it is going in

don't ask, dont tell

Looking good pirate i know you will keep us updating so good luck on everything. I'm sure it will be all you wanted it to be.

what do you plan on using for engine management? i'm guessing kpro...

[PirateMcFred]

Yes, I'll keep the thread up to date. Unfortunately it will be tuned with kpro. I'm really irked about their business practices recently. What a bunch of whiney bitches. It'd be damn funny if Honda USA jumped on their ass for messing with Honda's intellectual property contained in various ECUs. Maybe just sueing them for every penny they've made while under the Hondata brand would suffice.

Anyway, I digress. I uploaded some pics of the pistons that needed deburring.

Pirate

[200TS EC]

Very Nice!

Look forward to the end result.

[LSvtecMike]

Would you mind eloborating on the new K20Z top cam chain guide? Is this a maintenance item replaced due to wear? Or is this something that has been added to the new Civic SI K20Z engine? I have heard of this part before but I don't know much about it. In for more knowledge...

[Fat Chick Magnet]

good luck

[Evil Ryu]

Originally Posted by LSvtecMike

Would you mind eloborating on the new K20Z top cam chain guide? Is this a maintenance item replaced due to wear? Or is this something that has been added to the new Civic SI K20Z engine? I have heard of this part before but I don't know much about it. In for more knowledge...

it's the best k series top cam chain guide made to date. in most cases it might be overkill, but an anal person like me and less than 20 bucks, i bought one from the dealer for my build. it covers more area than other k series chain guides.
there's a thread in k20a.org about it.

[PirateMcFred]

Originally Posted by LSvtecMike

Would you mind eloborating on the new K20Z top cam chain guide? Is this a maintenance item replaced due to wear?

What Evil Ryu said. It's just more substantial. It might help keep the timing chain on track if something goes pear-shaped. It's like $10 too so can't be all bad.

I have not made much progress since the last post. the lathe at work is occupied with real parts and the other lathes are either too big or too small to hold the crank. The shop also hasn't finished the block yet for one reason or another. I guess people are starting to anticipate race season and I think they're busy.

Pirate

[92TypeR]

Originally Posted by PirateMcFred

Yes, I'll keep the thread up to date. Unfortunately it will be tuned with kpro. I'm really irked about their business practices recently.

If you want the ability to tune VTC without running Hondata, look into a DTA S60-Pro. Priced roughly the same, but with more features, like a CAN +/- if you ever want to run an external datalogger like an A.I.M., and additional outputs/inputs + functional traction control.

Looks good so far

[BolivianFuego]

Question, why the JDM ITR IM? I am guessing because of the powerband right?

Why not try the OEM TSX Manifold, a guy on K20a.org had one that was modified by himself and made awsome power in the meaty part of his powerband.

[PirateMcFred]

Originally Posted by 92TypeR

If you want the ability to tune VTC without running Hondata, look into a DTA S60-Pro. Priced roughly the same, but with more features, like a CAN +/- if you ever want to run an external datalogger like an A.I.M., and additional outputs/inputs + functional traction control.

That's neat, thanks for the link. I'll read up about it more. Those pesky English companies being all original... Unfortunate for me my Kpro is already paid for.

Originally Posted by BolivianFuego

Question, why the JDM ITR IM? I am guessing because of the powerband right?

Why not try the OEM TSX Manifold, a guy on K20a.org had one that was modified by himself and made awsome power in the meaty part of his powerband.

I'm going to use the PRC due to availability (read: I have it) and also due to space constraints. I currently have an RBC installed but with the K24's extra deck height I'll either have to hack on the RBC, redesign the engine mounts or try another manifold. So PRC it is. I can change it all around later once everything's built and broken in. If I get the power I want then I'll just leave it alone.

Anyone want a nice RBC intake manifold cut to fit a K20A? I'll have one for sale soon.

Thanks for the positive comments.

Pirate

[BolivianFuego]

Your def. going to be really close to the 265whp goal and gob's of torque. GL with your goal dude.

[92TypeR]

Originally Posted by PirateMcFred

That's neat, thanks for the link. I'll read up about it more. Those pesky English companies being all original... Unfortunate for me my Kpro is already paid for.

Sell it. The beauty of electronics is that they do not depreciate in value over time as much as a mechanical part.

There are a few Norma race cars that use K20's with DTA systems. They are a very desirable system for endurance racing due to their weatherproofing and shockproof boards.

[TheMidasTouch]

Originally Posted by PirateMcFred

Anyone want a nice RBC intake manifold cut to fit a K20A? I'll have one for sale soon.

I may if you come around to selling it. Ive got a PRC manifold on my K24A2 right now. What kinda fitment issues?
I'm mostly worried about it hitting my monster radiator(thing is freekin huge).

Although, i am very happy with the PRC mani, i was able to put out 230/185 with it(all stock except the usual cheap bolt-ons) and more left. So perhaps you'll hit your goals with that thing anyways. The plenum is a little small perhaps for the upper 200's lower 3's but the runner length is about spot on.

Nice project man

[vtecspeed1320]

Ill share some info and you can take it with a grain of salt or prepare yourself. A friend of mine and I have both experiance tilton clutch failures with our k series cars. Same clutch you have both of us are k turbo cars but the inner splines have ripped off the clutch packs. I am a hair over 550, and i think he was the same power, neither of us have been to an actual track too much so its not like its wearing from track abuse.

[6SPD_EK]

damn sick build!!! glad I could be a part of it & glad that you were happy with the longblock

for the k20 oil cooler - not sure if you know this, you can use a s2000 part (fitting) to make it bolt up (no machining of the block - like previously thought)

part 11107-PT2-000 ... only problem is its on back order everywhere

[PirateMcFred]

Originally Posted by 92TypeR

Sell it. The beauty of electronics is that they do not depreciate in value over time as much as a mechanical part.

Perhaps in the future I'll do that, otherwise it's an unnecessary complication right now.

Originally Posted by TheMidasTouch

I may if you come around to selling it. Ive got a PRC manifold on my K24A2 right now. What kinda fitment issues?

I don't have an Integra so I don't know if your fitment issues will be the same as mine. I suspect that if anyone else has a K24 in a Teg you should ask them about their experience.

Originally Posted by vtecspeed1320

IlA friend of mine and I have both experiance tilton clutch failures. Same clutch you have both of us are k turbo cars but the inner splines have ripped off the clutch packs. I am a hair over 550,

I suppose it's a risk I'll have to take. I don't anticipate getting much over 200wtq so the torque load on the splines should be much less than your turbo build. I also don't plan to do many drag launches either, just spirited driving.

If you have not been tracking your twin disk does that mean you've been driving it around on the street? If so what's the engagement like? Is it really harsh (on/off) or is it pretty easy to modulate? What throw out bearing have you got?

Originally Posted by 6SPD_EK

for the k20 oil cooler - not sure if you know this, you can use a s2000 part (fitting) to make it bolt up (no machining of the block - like previously thought) part 11107-PT2-000 ... only problem is its on back order everywhere

Yeah I tried to order that, but as you said it's on nation-wide back order. It would make some things a little easier but I can improvise or make my own out of aluminum if it comes down to it. I'd have to find the thread pitch and clean off the metric controls on the old manual lathe to cut metric threads...

I'm always up for a new challenge.

Pirate

[b19coupe]

Originally Posted by PirateMcFred

Nice little tool

[PirateMcFred]

I was expecting some comments about my compressor. It beats having to lean like a fat ass american on this $300 Buddy club compressor while trying to screw around with the valve locks:



First, I am not fat enough to hold down 100 pounds on that unergonomic, short-ass lever and the attachment that rests on the retainer might mar the Supertech aluminum retainers.

My compressor cost me about 15 minutes of my time and a piece of scrap aluminum. I don't have to push or pull or lean on the damn thing either. I can go get a beer in mid-operation and come back at my liesure. It's so much better than the other tools I've used in the past.


Pirate

[TheMidasTouch]

I have a B series in my drag integra. The K is in my EG as a road course car. I've allready modified the k24a2 head so i can use that chopped RBC but i was wondering if the runner+plenum would put it too close to the radiator.

[PirateMcFred]

Sorry about the signature reading comprehension issue. I don't think you'll have a problem. My issue is that's it's too tall not that it's too long. But again I do not know anything about Civics or Integras so my suggestions have little relevence to your applicaiton.