Slambob

2003 Accord, V6 EX Coupe. After a brief warn up period, approximately 10 miles the headlights will dim and then re brighten causing a flicker effect. Honda has issued a service bulletin # 05-034 stating that the ELD (electronic load detector) causes the problem. My dealers service department says that everything checks out OK according to Honda service procedure but the problem still remains. I have been able to determine that the headlights dim when the throttle is depressed after a brief period of coasting. I feel that the service department has not duplicated actual conditions understandably because of economic reasons. Has anybody experienced this problem?

WGRoper

My folks bought a new 2008 EX-L with the 4 cyclinder a few months ago. It has an annoying problem with the headlights. When the radiator fan cycles on and off, the headlights will dim noticeably, sometimes every minute or two. The dealer is telling my father that they all do that and there was no fix. They pulled a new Accord off the truck and tried it and sure enough it did the same thing. He called American Honda in California and they gave him the same BS that they all do it. We've been driving Hondas since 1990 (for a total of 7 different vehicles) and this is the first one. It's been to the dealer twice for this, so they get one more shot at it before Georgia's Lemon Law takes effect.

Sadly, something like this will drive my father away from Honda forever. He's ticked and rightfully so.

Anybody else with a 2008 that's noticed this?

HondaTechAV6

this is not a problem. it did not happen on older accords because older accords did not have an ELD device.

ELD stands for electronic load detector. this device measures the electrical load in the vehicle and informs the vehicle computer of this information. the computer then determines what output the alternator should put out(high, med, low).

it uses the ELD to maximise fuel economy by reducing the alternator load on teh engine when high or med output isn't needed. this is why the headlights dim when another load is activated.

the lemon law does not take effect if an attempt at repairing the vehicle wasn't made, and it surely doesn't apply because of how the vehicle was designed - maximum fuel economy. there is nothing you can do to fix this, it is normal.

WGRoper

Well, if it's normal, which is the same line that Honda read off to him as well, it sucks and I wouldn't recommend anyone buying this car. I'm very disappointed.

WGRoper

And the document they gave him explaining the ELD stated that it had been in use since the early 90s. Again, never experienced a problem until the 2008. I think they screwed it up and it needs to be changed.

WGRoper

My folks bought a 2008 Accord EX-L that exhibits this problem as well. It's very annoying, but I doubt Honda is going to do anything about it. Call Honda NA and complain.

Slambob

I'm glad I did not buy an 08 Accord. If Honda can't fix the problem and it still exists on the 08 models I am through with Honda. I have owned Accords since the 80's and can't believe that they would let a problem like this exist.

Eyetattoo

To be honest it is barley noticeable unless you are really looking for it. The headlights in my 2000 Chevy truck dim way more....then again it could be because of the two 12's.....lol

HondaTechAV6

every year accord with an ELD dim the headlights with another moderate load activated.

HondaTechAV6

it's not a problem, it's normal. it's to increase fuel ecomony. it's designed this way. if this puts you off from honda excellent. i'd hate to see what else you bring your car in for under warranty.

WGRoper

Explain to me then why the 2007 model doesn't do this and the 2008 does then. It's a bad design.

WGRoper

B.S. The 2007 model didn't do it. We've had two 96 models that didn't do it and they supposedly have the ELD. I'm driving a 96 now that doesn't do it.

HondaTechAV6

it's not a bad design. it's purpose is to reduce load on the crank from the alternator. it does happen on 07 accords if the pcm commands low or medium alternator output. if it's in high output(like when you first start the car) you may not see the dimming.

HondaTechAV6

your 96 may have a problem. what i mean is if the eld develops a short or problem the alternator defaults to high output mode. they are known to crack along solder joints internally.

this will usually set a dtc(p1298) but it is not emissions related, so it doesn't illuminate the check engine light.

why don't you disconnect the eld on your 08 and see if your headlights still dim?


keep in mind doing this can shorten the alternator life and may reduce your fuel economy slightly.

remove the underhood fuse box so you separate the lower half of the fuse box easily. then just disconnect the eld. i know pre-08 did not set a check engine light with an eld problem.

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SuM Honda

Good lord some people are bitchy...you wouldn't buy the car because the headlights dim a little? How about you go buy a chevy so you can be stuck on the side of the road with bright head lights. I'm sorry but that's just irritating.

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WGRoper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My folks bought a new 2008 EX-L with the 4 cyclinder a few months ago. It has an annoying problem with the headlights. When the radiator fan cycles on and off, the headlights will dim noticeably....</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do I understand you to be saying that this is noticeable when you are actually driving the car? You're saying that from the driver's seat when driving the car at night, you can tell that the lights have dimmed?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by WGRoper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">B.S. The 2007 model didn't do it. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I have a 2006 6-6 Coupe, and it certainly doesn't do it while you're driving the car! I think that I can recall noticing a slight dim when left idling long enough for the fan to cut on, but not while driving the car.

If it's only happening when the car is left idling, it seems to me that it doesn't matter.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HondaTechAV6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">every year accord with an ELD dim the headlights with another moderate load activated. </TD></TR></TABLE>
If you're driving the car when the ELD re-distributes the load, isn't the dimming overcome by the relative output of the alternator in a car that's being driven on the road over 2000 RPM?

Thank you for providing the detailed responses you've given.

HondaTechAV6

you would think it's overcome, but it isn't at times. it takes a lot to put the alternator in high output mode, such as load testing the alternator with a load tester. honda doesn't provide any logic into the pcms voltage regulation ability.




that bulletin you posted is for dimming headlights constantly, or repetitively at idle without activating another load(fans, window swithes, whatever). the inspection is looking at the alternator output with headlights on, so you can see if the eld is doing it's job. it's not a fix for dimming headlights from another load.

Slambob

Dear WG
I am not a winer, I am a very qualified master mechanic who has won numerous awards for total vehicle restorations including mechanical and cosmetic as well as numerous racing championships. I own at the current time vehicles from Porsche, BMW and Honda.
My problem is very annoying and did not occur when the vehicle was new and just surfaced within the last 1000 miles. The headlights dim when the throttle is picked up after a brief coast while traveling at moderate speeds. It is very annoying to have this flicker effect and verges on being dangerous while driving on a dark road. Nothing else is effected and all other electrical accessories work just fine. This is not a little dim it is very noticeable and distracting. 2003 Accord V6 EX just turned 37,000. miles.

HondaTechAV6

well that sounds like a definate problem. i'd suggest going to a different dealer for a second opinion. you can also try and replace the eld yourself(i'll give you instructions if needed) as a preventitive. if the dimming is that bad you may have a problem with the alternator or battery including grounds.

do you have any engine painting or anything mods/upgrades?

have you had any body work done ever? i've seen countless body shops use regular 6mm bolts instead of special ground bolts. a bad couple of grounds(both headlights use different grounds) can cause dimmer headlights. also the eld shares a ground with the right headlight bulb i believe.

the headlight relays in the fuse box may have some resistance to them.

finally, the problem is... if the flickering to you may be normal dimming because of eld properties we may be chasing a ghost. can you get a nice high quality video of it in action?

MSchu

does this sound like a grounding issue or an resistence issue with the line that should be grounded?

Slambob

I have an electronics background. The car is in original near mint condition, it is only driven the winter when the roads are not salted, I have a Ford F150 for that purpose. I have checked the battery, battery connections and relays. I have removed the headlight bulbs and tested each one and they are OK. All other accessories work perfectly. I can not see if the tail lights dim as well. I hate to buy an ELD for $300.00 when Honda NA rep Janell said they would help me if the dealer can diagnose the problem. My local dealer treated me very fairly except that the problem still persists. I want to buy a 2008 Accord but can not sell this one to any body until the problem is corrected. Thank you for your help.

Accord1234

So the headlights dim alittle when the fan kicks on, big deal, its not like your always driving with them on. And I'm sure if your driving at nite you can't even notice it. Its a new car, just enjoy it already.

WGRoper

Let me clarify... the headlights dim noticeably when driving 55-60mph as well as when idling. It'd be one thing if it only occured when idling, but when the engine is turning 2500-3000 rpm and it does it every minute or two, it's downright annoying and uncalled for. Heck, I expect the headlights to dim when idling and there is an additional load on the engine, but not when driving.

And yeah, I'm bitchy. I've come to expect Honda to get it right everytime, and I'm disappointed with this one.

WGRoper

While I haven't done so recently, I have a OBDII interface and I have connected it to the 96 to see if there were any codes and there were none.

I'm going to try to disconnect the ELD on the 2008 this week and see if it makes a difference.

Again, to clarify, this is a problem when the car is being driven, not just idling.

WGRoper

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Accord1234 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So the headlights dim alittle when the fan kicks on, big deal, its not like your always driving with them on. And I'm sure if your driving at nite you can't even notice it. Its a new car, just enjoy it already.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually, driving at night is when he first noticed it. I drove it too and saw the same thing. Every minute or two. Consistently.