fastshift

im doing manual swap on my 97 accord soon, and i was working of minor things like brake pedal and so on. the other day, i was working on clutch pedal mounting, as i was told, there wasn't a bracket for the top bolt.
the bracket looks like this.

imagine ur sitting on the floor of the car, facing pedals, looking up.
this bracket was spot welded at 6 spots.
if i tack weld all the way around, would it be strong enough?
this is upside down weld and as i heard, upside down welding requires u plenty of experience. i was thinking about using several sets of bolts and nuts but i really didn't want to drill holds on the top of the fire wall and have to seal it perectly so the water doesn't leak in - either rain or windshield washer liquid or w/e.

so, how strong is tack weld? will it be strong enough to hold the bracket in its place as it being a bracket for clutch pedal that i will be using numerous times.

thanks in advance

Edit: the picture was taken in a 5th gen accord with m/t at a junk yard.

civicjoe

I'm not exactly sure what's going on here lol maybe I just can't visualize it.

But back to your question... I would not just tack weld it, I have a small amount of experience welding and from what I was taught you just use tack welds to hold something in place while you weld it properly. If you are going to weld I would prep the area so it's nice and strong weld, get the paint off so you have good contact to the metal. Then you'd have to put something down so all the sparks from welding won't burn anything in your car's interior.

Personally I would drill holes and use a couple of bolts to fasten it. Then you can use that caulk they use on house windows to seal your firewall all nice.

Let's see what other people think I'm sure someone will chime in

damnraz

It will hold up fine as long as you grind the paint all the way to bare metal and have it free of contamination. What I would do is basically place where you want your bracket to be while mocking up your clutch pedal and tack four points to keep it in that location. I would probably stitch weld it evenly maybe a .250" at 6 points spaced evenly using TIG to prevent the bracket from the possibility of warping. This is just my opinion if I were the person working on it but there are others who might have different opinions. Please chime in.

RCautoworks

Mig will work if its done right. I'd imagine if your doing this under the car ( foot area ) tig would be a pain.

damnraz

If your using a foot pedal consider yourself a pro, sometimes I had to use my knee on the foot pedal to weld some things for work.

RCautoworks

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by damnraz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your using a foot pedal consider yourself a pro, sometimes I had to use my knee on the foot pedal to weld some things for work.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not saying it can't be done, I welded some things upside before ( cage work ) the issue is you have to be almost under the dash on your back. A mig can fix and resolve the issue, no need to work hard if your working smart.

Tac welds won't be strong enough, spot welds are a different story.

fastshift

Thanks for all the inputs. i was thinking whether i weld it or use sets of bolt and nuts i have to spend some time laying on my back in that little ****. lol
i personally don't own a welder but one of my friends does. i think he has mig but not sure. isn't tig weld the one u have use free hand to hold steel wire?

if i take it u like autozone, do they so this kinda job too? o well i'm gonna stop there this weekend anyway...

also earlier i said it was top of the fire wall but to be specific, its the other side the metal sheet behind the windshield wiper motor and right underneath the windshield (hope im not making it even more compicated lol). so there is a great possibility of leak.... i'll post another pic if i can

i'll ask my friend wat kinda welder he has and i'll get back to u guys and let u know whats going on

RS2 FAB

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastshift &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thanks for all the inputs. i was thinking whether i weld it or use sets of bolt and nuts i have to spend some time laying on my back in that little ****. lol
i personally don't own a welder but one of my friends does. i think he has mig but not sure. isn't tig weld the one u have use free hand to hold steel wire?

if i take it u like autozone, do they so this kinda job too? o well i'm gonna stop there this weekend anyway...

also earlier i said it was top of the fire wall but to be specific, its the other side the metal sheet behind the windshield wiper motor and right underneath the windshield (hope im not making it even more compicated lol). so there is a great possibility of leak.... i'll post another pic if i can

i'll ask my friend wat kinda welder he has and i'll get back to u guys and let u know whats going on </TD></TR></TABLE>


tig is tungsten inert gas welding or TGAW (tungsten gas arc welding) thats the one with a torch and filler metal with your free hand

MIG is the gun, with SHIELDING gas added not self shielding wire (thats flux core)

mig is eaiser becuase you can just reach your hand in there and start getting at it.

flux core is a little dirter and requires you to clean it afterwords for a nice effect.....MIG is choice for this.

the factory mounts are not tack welded they are spot welds.......the welders you see with the two protruding arms or hooks that pinch the metal

the people at autozone are usally the unskilled type kids so i doubt any of them can even tell you what welder your freind has.......and they do not offer a cheap welding service

rorik

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastshift &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
if i take it u like autozone, do they so this kinda job too? o well i'm gonna stop there this weekend anyway...</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's signature material right there..

ROTARY

^ lol ...

snowseeker

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by damnraz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If your using a foot pedal consider yourself a pro, sometimes I had to use my knee on the foot pedal to weld some things for work.</TD></TR></TABLE>


I have used just about every part of my body to push the foot pedal control before while doing cages in cars. I even had someone else work the foot pedal while I welded

civicjoe

I think stick and tig is out of the question. That leaves you with mig or bolts.

I'm gonna hold by what I originally said. If you weld you gotta prep the metal, clean the area, cover everything you don't want burnt...etc Then if you weld it to the wrong place you're gonna have to make a mess, start cutting and grinding it off, then start all over.
Or you could just figure out where to drill your holes. Drill the holes, bolt it on there, seal it with some good quality caulk. Presto your done!!!

Welding seems like too much of a hassle for this job. I can guarantee that if you decide to do the job with the bolts and go with a good high quality caulk it will not leak. (granted you do the job right)

Another option you might not have thought of is to bolt the piece in place and then instead of caulking just fill in around the bolts with weld.

fastshift

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
That's signature material right there..</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol i knew it was a lame question haha

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicjoe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Another option you might not have thought of is to bolt the piece in place and then instead of caulking just fill in around the bolts with weld.</TD></TR></TABLE>

this sounds like the best choice to me so far. and i thought maybe weld the nuts on the bracket after drilling decent size holes, bolt it up from the top, weld the bolts.... and maybe weld more from the inside afterward

thanks a bunch everyone

hybrid2007

Theres no need to bolt and weld it, either one is fine.

Unless you have the interior stripped i would bolt it as its alot less hassle to hoover up a bit of swarf than to protect everything and put out fires lol

RS2 FAB

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicjoe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I think stick and tig is out of the question. That leaves you with mig or bolts.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

def stick needs at least 14"s and it looks like he does'nt have that

he is a first time welder so tig is def out of the question............i see his options as flux core (not as clean.......grind to clean it up a little) or GMAW....

he can learn semiauto welding in a weekend (not well but enough to bullshit your way through it)

JDcompman

I think the best option here is to plug weld it. Since you will most likely have to drill the spot welds out of it to get it off the donor car you will already have round holes where you had to drill. Just position the piece and MIG weld inside the hole that you created when taking it out of the donor car. This way when you are done it will be just as strong as stock and look almost exactly like stock. Drilling holes and using bolts just sounds ghetto to me. I would also probably leave the pedal assembly on the bracket while you weld the first two points to help make sure it is in exactly the right spot.

Dazed and Confused

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDcompman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think the best option here is to plug weld it. Since you will most likely have to drill the spot welds out of it to get it off the donor car you will already have round holes where you had to drill. Just position the piece and MIG weld inside the hole that you created when taking it out of the donor car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
x2

new2novas

wow lets say to this...#@$@$ mig it, end of story

fastshift

this randomly came up in my mind and was thinking maybe i would work..

im still considering welding tho...

how about using some of these...





pix from

[FAQ] 96-00 Auto to Manual Swap in full detail!! (44pics) by Luserkid

thanks to Luserkid. i brought this pix w/o permission, if there is any problem, i'll erase the pix as i am asked.

anyway, would using these stuff work??? lol i mean im really wondering...

there was this stuff called Magic Epoxy Steel, and they r advetised that they can hold up to 6000 lbs psi.

http://www.epoxy.com.pk/steel.htm

idk if i can get it anywhere here or online.

but if any of u ppl where i can get really strong epoxy or any type of bonds that r strong enough to be used in this situation, plz LMK!!!

RCautoworks

That won't hold.

Luserkid

I cant believe my picture was put up with my permission, blah blah blah. Nah i dont care.

But just so you know those 2 items i used just to hold a wind plate there and it barely gets any major pressure. I dont recommend this for something that takes alot of pressure. Accords are not the funniest to do auto to manuals, ill tell you that much.

fastshift

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Luserkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I cant believe my picture was put up with my permission, blah blah blah. Nah i dont care.

But just so you know those 2 items i used just to hold a wind plate there and it barely gets any major pressure. I dont recommend this for something that takes alot of pressure. Accords are not the funniest to do auto to manuals, ill tell you that much. </TD></TR></TABLE>

haha sry about the pix. but still im afraid u might have gotten pissed if i didn't put down ur thread's link and stuff.... if not, well idk lol

yeah and after i asked that question, i was thinking about that too. cuz as u saw the pic of the bracket, there is little surface that contacts to the fire wall. since the clutch pedal is used alot so it woulda been broken off or something....

anyway, guess whats amazing. snow in texas lol its snowing like it would be in minnesota. we all were dismissed at 12 from school and im chilling at home now haha