b18bEKcoupe

Much of the early discussion in this thread has been focused on protecting the software and preventing reverse engineering and now I read about how much reverse engineering you are doing to get this to work. Seems a little hypocritical.

WHITFIELD-TUNED

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18bEKcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Much of the early discussion in this thread has been focused on protecting the software and preventing reverse engineering and now I read about how much reverse engineering you are doing to get this to work. Seems a little hypocritical.</TD></TR></TABLE>so you are saying?? reverse engineering is what EVERYBODY does PERIOD !!!! since the dawn of time looking back at the mistakes or "overlooks " of others is what this great country is built upon...

dpaton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18bEKcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I read about how much reverse engineering you are doing to get this to work. Seems a little hypocritical.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Like the D series head you wanted for "benchmarking"? That's reverse engineering too. Honda didn't give you the info you wanted, so you're taking one of their products to figure it out for yourself. Reverse engineering, by definition. Logic &gt; you.

What everyone was fighting about was protecting the new code that Calvin has written, and the products of his labor. Yes, he did a lot of reverse engineering to figure out where to put things and how the Honda ECU does some tricky stuff (so does anyone who does anything cool with a closed system), but he also created new things to put back in there, and that's what he's protecting.

Unsivil_audio

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If I see any more bitching and public nonsense, there will be larger repercussions than just some bruised egos on honda-tech.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol.

blundar - 1

h-t.com - 0

daddycivic

j/k about aem ems. I would like to try this ectune. It sound like it is little ezier to use. So it's still not release yet. when will it come out. I like to try new stuff. It's been some time now. Hey calvin getting close to being releast yet?

.nate

Sign up for the newsletter on http://www.ectune.com everyone who subscribes will be updated when there is new info available regarding release dates/pricing info, ect.

le0ftw

Is there a price set yet ?

.nate

Please read the post directly above yours. Thanks

HiProfile

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dpaton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Like the D series head you wanted for "benchmarking"? That's reverse engineering too. Honda didn't give you the info you wanted, so you're taking one of their products to figure it out for yourself. Reverse engineering, by definition. Logic &gt; you.

What everyone was fighting about was protecting the new code that Calvin has written, and the products of his labor. Yes, he did a lot of reverse engineering to figure out where to put things and how the Honda ECU does some tricky stuff (so does anyone who does anything cool with a closed system), but he also created new things to put back in there, and that's what he's protecting.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats not the best way to fit eCtune in with reverse engineering. He's taking a known product & figuring out how it works to make a better product that does what he wants. He's not doing it to make an exact copy and undercut Honda in their own ecu market. The difference is the whining end user wants to essentially hack it to <U>use it</U> for free, not reverse engineer it to <U>learn</U> for free. In other words, Calvin is doing the legwork & asking for a per-unit fee, while the whiners here want to something for nothing.

The actual defininition of reverse engineering is to 'hack' someone's product, produce a rule book/procedure that comes up with the same end product, then submitting it to 'virgins' who've never dealt with the product in question and having them using that rule book/procedure that ends up doing the same thing. With eCtune its a bit different - he isn't trying to make a carbon copy of the p28/p30/etc, he's making a user-adjustable version that can use the same or different sensors.


As far as pricing, I just hope this doesn't become like the Neptune RTP - having them telling us to "hold your breath, its getting close" for well over a year. The only thing I had more than waking up naked & sticky next to a 250lb pig of a woman w/no recolection of how it happened is vapor ware.

nowtype

I don't even know why you people think I want something. I don't tune Hondas. I don't touch Hondas. I don't have anything to do with Hondas. I liked pgmfi because I could go on that site and learn something new from various people. Those people went away when their work started getting used in commercial software. Because of this, I don't get to learn as much and it bothers me. I'm selfish and want to learn from non-dummies. I also think the way they use the information, which was meant for open source development, to develop commercial software is immoral. Disagree or disagree, again I don't care.

DOHCtor Boost

I am a embeded programmer (AVR). I have been looking around on pgmfi.org for years, but due to lack of time and work couldn't have ever in my wildest of dreams do what calvin and others have done. Knowing how redevelopment of existing roms work, Im sure calvin has put allot of time in this new program. So he has the right to protect his time investment and interests.

But on the other hand contributing to the pgmfi.org community helped him to learn and understand the limmitation of the honda roms. So that should be at least reflected or stated somewhere in his app.

for the ECtune team

calvinPGMFI

Hey look on my Site first link

blundar

nowtype,
I can't refer you to PGMFI's mission statement or goals now because my server is still dead and I haven't had the time to reinstall it due to work/school/baby draining all of my available time.

To paraphrase, PGMFI's goal was proliferation. Commercial products deliver on that, just in a different way than free open source software.

Once the server is back up and running fully, I believe PGMFI's new management is going to kick all non-open source projects off the site. I agree with you 100% that the site has lost its way... Then again, this happened when PGMFI became the home of Crome instead of the home of honda ECU hacking, not when eCtune hit the scene.

slooogsr

Just recieved a tuning session by Xenocron and i was happily surprised to see he brought along eCtune for my appointment. Very happy with the results and the way it runs.......

calvinPGMFI

Nice

SETI20

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nowtype &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I also think the way they use the information, which was meant for open source development, to develop commercial software is immoral. Disagree or disagree, again I don't care.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah, that's what the big boys call "research & development". There is no way, anywhere on the planet, that you can patent, or legislate a concept.

We, as a community have been bitching and moaning that we want to use the best features of all programs, and none of the faults and drawbacks.

Finally someone steps up, and takes the time to completely re-write, revise, and re-develop those applications, and he can't take credit for all the work he's done on his own? Even if he were to have based his product on old code, the end result is unique.

You said it yourself, you don't care about the honda community, and you're selfish.
Go away. We have no use for you here.

b18bEKcoupe

You guys totally missed the point. And i am not reverse engineering anything. Its called competitive analysis. Yes, i purchased several D series heads which was only a small portion of the heads a collected. Most of what they are used for is looking at packaging and weights. If i am going to be designing a new engine for the market i want to have an idea of what weight/size/output i should be close to. What would i copy? Honda has terrible castings, mediocre flow, and an ancient variable timing system. Furthermore, I wasn't ripping on the software at all. Actually, i will be purchasing this when it is available. I just hope you can find another way to "protect" your software in such a way that it doesn't inconvenience the customer.

Unsivil_audio

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18bEKcoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda has terrible castings, mediocre flow, and an ancient variable timing system.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wow, you are retarded if you really believe that. A stock d-series head will outflow most comparable 4 cylinders on the market.

b18bEKcoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Unsivil_audio &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Wow, you are retarded if you really believe that. A stock d-series head will outflow most comparable 4 cylinders on the market. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You have no idea what you are talking about. Your just jumping on the bandwagon and pretending that you have a clue. If you compare a d series or even a b series head to the heads i work on or any of the dozens of other heads we have had on the flow bench you would see that the Honda is nothing special. I didnt say that they are bad. They are about average.

So...are you talking flow numbers or talking out of your ***?

My comparisons are of outboard marine engines. Conveniently, Honda often uses items or whole engines from their automotive production on their marine engines. So for the most part i am comparing this to other marine engines just for reference.

Anyways...this is way off topic. Lets get back to talking about the sweet new tuning software that we are all very excited to buy and play with!

Unsivil_audio

http://www.cylinderheadtech.com

I'm talking flow numbers, there's a pdf on there. Take a look for yourself. I dont talk out my ***.

Joseph Davis

Talking junk flow numbers is talking out of your ***. There's a LOT more going on inside an engine - look at 4G63 that have flow numbers that blow $1200 portwork packages on a Honduh head out of the water, and look at the sorry VE they get. Show me a boosted engine that gets .42-.38 BSFC repeatably.

None of this has anything to do with the matter at hand. Drop it, start your own thread, etc.




Back on track:





Sleeved 81mm LS/VTEC
Portflow head
Brian Crower cams
Lovefab topmount
Vicky-X IM
GT35-AAAARRRRR baller bearing turbo
880cc injectors
16 psi

Starts up mint, idles 750 rpms like a stock car, and it was an easy tune. eCtune works and has features a number of $1500 standalones I could name lack - stability and user interface being the top of that list.


Modified by Joseph Davis at 10:57 PM 5/11/2007

Joseph Davis

22-23 psi:



I'd bring you 600, but the very next pull one of the non-fiber reinforced couplers pulled a number on us:



Sorry to suck so badly.

calvinPGMFI

Nice Joseph Davis,
First ectuned 500whp.... I thought dave would do that first!

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

Very nice man.
I just had one of those damn couplers blow out on my street car.

SOHCD16y8

Damn it, stop teasing me with these cars and get some prices out!!!