How to: power steering to manual

[Dropspeed]

UPDATE: 7/24/03 Jerome from Realtime racing that helped me with this mod via phone passed away recently, please pray for his family and remember the contributions he gave to the Acura/Honda world, this being only one of them. This was brought up by another post I had regarding how to convert you power steering rack to work as a manual. This is the similar to Realtime racings set-up. I reposted so it will be easier to find during a "search" in the future: Its is very easy to do, difficult to find the fittings. Sorry only some pics so I'll describe as best as possible. Once high pressure lines are removed from the rack you will have a "barb" fitting and a threaded female fitting that are straight down from the master cylinder where the steering shaft goes into the rack. You will need to find a barb fitting that threads into the female opening. Anyplace that sells Areoquip......Speed shops... I got mine from Detroit Flexible Metal http://www.hosenow.com The part number for the threaded fitting and the barb adapter are 15.117-6-6 ($14.00) and FBM 1222 ($2.50) When you have two barb fittings you will need a hose to connect them or double back into itself. Acura part # 53735 sr3 960 Listed as a "power cooler" works perfectly for this application. Should retail for $14.62. It is only a short rubber hose that doubles back 180 degrees but you will not be able to get a normal heater hose or fuel/air hose to do so without kinking. STEP 1 Connect the two open ends from where the high pressure lines were removed (picture courtesy of TodaSI, Actually I didn't ask<IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://images.zeroforum.com/smile/emsmile.gif" BORDER="0"> The picture is not the same hose you would get from Acura I described above) When that is complete the car is actually drivable but still requires some effort to turn the wheel. The next step is to "tap" into one of the lines that feeds the rack. If you look straight down from your throttle body area to the rack you will see 2 metal lines (look like brake lines) that feed the rack itself. The one in the middle of the rack that threads straight down into it is the one you need to "T" into. It is the line on the right of the rear engine mount in this picture. This is where you need to be creative. I spent $50 in fittings doing this. The next time I will just cut the line and braze (sp?) a "T" fitting into it. STEP 2 All you need to do at this point is "T" into the thin metal feed line on the rack itself, be creative The next is easy, run a hose from where you just installed your "T" into the line up to some sort of breather. I copied Realtime and used a Tilton brake resivour that can be seen in this picture infront of the strut brace: The purpose of this is to allow the rack to "breath" when you are forcing the air and fluid though it. I got mine from Pegasus. http://www.pegasusautoracing.com All of the parts that you need I put together here. PEGASUS AUTO RACING SUPPLIES - (800) 688-6946 Shopping Cart Contents Part No Description Price Pkg Qty. Delete 3564 MASTER CYLINDER CAP REPLACEMENT THREADED UNIVERSAL 5.00 Each 3558-SMALL MASTER CYLINDER RESERVOIR REPLACMENT SMALL UNIVERSAL 8.00 Each 3557 MASTER CYLINDER MOUNTING BRACKET REMOTE RESERVOIR REPLACEMENT 9.00 Each 3563 MASTER CYLINDER INLET FITTING REPLACMENT REMOTE MOUNTS ON MASTER CYL 5.19 Each 3577 RESERVOIR CLAMP REPLACEMENT OR REMOTE INLET 2.00 Each Number of Items: 5 Total Cost: $29.19 When I first install my breather I had the front wheels off of the ground and turned the steering wheel back and forth. P/S fluid shot about 3 feet in the air through the breather hole on the cap because of all the pressure. I then took the line from the bottom of my Tilton Breather and ran it into a drain pan and turned the wheel back and forth until it stopped blowing fluid out. At this point the steering becomes very easy and you will hear the fluid in the rack "slopping" back and forth. You will not have any fluid in the Resivour it is only used as a Breather and possible overflow. The last thing I did was install a Sparco 350mm steering wheel. it made the car that much easier to drive. Well If you made it this far, I hope I was descriptive enough, good luck. Mattj Thank Rboosted717 and TodaSI for the pictures. [Modified by Dropspeed, 12:43 AM 5/13/2002] Modified by Dropspeed at 9:48 PM 7/26/2003

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[TodaSi]

Matt,

Wouldn't just this work?


I just looped the input/output lines. I don't understand why you would need the "breather" part. So is your rack very low on fluid then?


[Modified by TodaSi, 9:06 PM 5/12/2002]

[Dropspeed]

Matt,

Wouldn't just this work?


I just looped the input/output lines. I don't understand why you would need the "breather" part. So is your rack very low on fluid then?


[Modified by TodaSi, 9:06 PM 5/12/2002]

Yes that will work fine. However it will require less effort if you add a breather. I had mine set-up like that to try it. But because it is a sealed system you are fighting the fluid and air pressure. The rack is low on fluid but it is only in there as a lubricant.

Mattj



[Modified by Dropspeed, 10:45 PM 5/12/2002]

[nfn15037]

Why not just be really lazy and loop the lines that come off the pump? That way the tank stays there to keep thh rack lubed properly and it only takes like 5 minutes to do

[done]

this will help alot, over removing power steering pump....?

like comparing turning effort

[Dropspeed]

Why not just be really lazy and loop the lines that come off the pump? That way the tank stays there to keep thh rack lubed properly and it only takes like 5 minutes to do

Them why bother doing it at all? Most people are concerned not only with the parasitic draw from the pump but also the weight of the pump, lines, brackets, resivour..........The differance between "just removing the belt and doubling back the lines" and actually draining some fluid and adding a breather is huge. Besides in a parking lot situation the car feels like the p/s is still there and can be driven comfortably with one hand while making turns or in corners.

Mattj

[done]

could you try tof ind a pic of the "Barb" fitting, im gonna try this, it shoudl shed weight and help me

[Rboosted717]

oh nice. Thats almost exactly what I've been working on for a long time now as an idea for the system.
Now this is one of the best H-T ideas/threads I've come across now!

[ARunto]

I did what TodaSi did and just looped it with the rack still FULL of fluid. I haven't had any problems in the 3 years I've had it like that.


-Alan

[Rboosted717]

yeah he's not saying that doing that is bad. In fact he does the same thing to his setup, yet he also adds on a breather to make the steering feel a lot looser and easier to turn rather then just looping the two holes.

[Dropspeed]

yeah he's not saying that doing that is bad. In fact he does the same thing to his setup, yet he also adds on a breather to make the steering feel a lot looser and easier to turn rather then just looping the two holes.

Correct.

ps I updated with pictures and additional part info. Feel free to use this info/how-to on web-sites and what not, just give me credit DISCLAIMER, Do this at you own risk, if your not comfortable, don't do it.

Mattj


[Modified by Dropspeed, 12:56 AM 5/13/2002]


[Modified by Dropspeed, 1:02 AM 5/13/2002]

[TodaSi]

Some more pics to help illustrate. The brass fitting I picked up at NAPA, $ .50 or so. I do not know the part # or the size




Here is my Si giving birth.



[Modified by TodaSi, 1:45 AM 5/13/2002]


Modified by TodaSi at 9:57 PM 8/9/2004

[Qwikrex]

Why T into the thin metal line? Can't you just T into the rubber hose that you just looped in and run the breather from there? It just seem easier to T into a rubber hose rather than into a metal pipe.

[Dropspeed]

I'm sure you could, I just copied the Realtime cars. They have been running like this for 5+ years (and winning) My "guess" is that you want the rack to breath and that is a direct port.

Mattj

[yoshi234]

arigato matt-san

yshi - who b00kmarx dis thred fo lata use

[norice]

What is the difference is steering effort between:

A. Removing PS belt
B. Removing PS belt, pump and looping hose
C. Setup outlined here with reservoir

I have A and was thinking of doing B. Is the difference between B and C significant?

Also, how much do the PS pump and lines weigh? Is the PS pump the majority of this weight?


[Modified by norice, 11:15 AM 5/13/2002]

[TodaSi]

What is the difference is steering effort between:

A. Removing PS belt
B. Removing PS belt, pump and looping hose
C. Setup outlined here with reservoir

I have A and was thinking of doing B. Is the difference between B and C significant?

Also, how much do the PS pump and lines weigh? Is the PS pump the majority of this weight?

I haven't weighed the PS pump but I would venture to say about 5 lbs. More so than the weight, it's the parasitic drag.....main reason to remove the belt...yes? Going from A-B is good, better feel, easyier to turn at slow speeds, a lot of people have done it. Going from B-C I haven't any experience, although Matt speaks highly of it and the RealTime guys do it so it should work great. Ever watch Pierre banging around the track? I'm sure he of all people need a good, fast, easy to turn rack!

[mojoGSR92]

When I first install my breather I had the front wheels off of the ground and turned the steering wheel back and forth. P/S fluid shot about 3 feet in the air through the breather hole on the cap because of all the pressure.

The mental picture from this is priceless. I bet your face went

I then took the line from the bottom of my Tilton Breather and ran it into a drain pan and turned the wheel back and forth until it stopped blowing fluid out. At this point the steering becomes very easy and you will hear the fluid in the rack "slopping" back and forth. You will not have any fluid in the Resivour it is only used as a Breather and possible overflow.

As for the "drain pan" can you describe this in a little more detail? As the previous post mentioned, I'm at step A (removing power steering belt) and have been for a year now. I plan on keeping the power steering out and wanted to go to a manual rack but I didn't want the slow ratio of something like a Civic DX. I'd like to eventually go to step C (the set-up detailed here).

Thanks in advance for the response, and good write up.

[nfn15037]

Why not just be really lazy and loop the lines that come off the pump? That way the tank stays there to keep thh rack lubed properly and it only takes like 5 minutes to do

Them why bother doing it at all? Most people are concerned not only with the parasitic draw from the pump but also the weight of the pump, lines, brackets, resivour..........The differance between "just removing the belt and doubling back the lines" and actually draining some fluid and adding a breather is huge. Besides in a parking lot situation the car feels like the p/s is still there and can be driven comfortably with one hand while making turns or in corners.

Mattj

Well, i did remove the pump, and the bracket for it. The reservior weighs next to nothing, and its not all that hard to turn. Still 100x easier than with the pump still there. I like keeping the reservior there so i can make sure there is still fluid in the rack. Im not saying my way is better in any way, as your method is obvously the right way, but it is much easier than digging around behind the motor looking for hoses coming off the rack.


[Modified by nfn15037, 12:55 PM 5/13/2002]

[norice]

It is still not clear to me how removing the pump and connecting its input and output hoses together is in practice any different from the elaborate setup outlined here (apart from the weight of the hoses). Does the stock reservoir not also act as a breather?

[Dropspeed]

There is no right or wrong way to do this just different ways.


"As for the "drain pan" can you describe this in a little more detail?"

I was just saying Drain it into a pan, bottle, or the floor. All your doing is letting the fluid run out of the system.

It is still not clear to me how removing the pump and connecting its input and output hoses together is in practice any different from the elaborate setup outlined here (apart from the weight of the hoses). Does the stock reservoir not also act as a breather?

Yes it does, and you can do that but you are still fighting the fluid in the rack itself. If the rack is low on fluid= less resistance.

Yes digging around behind the rack is a pain in the butt,

Going from you step b-c is a noticable difference, And yes my face went when the fluid shot up.
Mattj





[Modified by Dropspeed, 4:54 PM 5/13/2002]

[Padawan]

Also, how much do the PS pump and lines weigh? Is the PS pump the majority of this weight?

All of the PS components, plus the fluid that was in the reservoir and lines, weighed roughly 16 lbs. when I removed them.

[The Toecutter]

Good write-up.
Question: Will the rack half full of p.s. fluid retain its lubricating properties as if the pump remained intact? I'm concerned about the long-term reliability with this set up. I've also been looking for an alternative to the cx/dx rack. I used to have an 89 crx si and miss the "feel" of a manual rack.
j

[R8dR]

That's a nice setup! I'm thinking about trying that out, but I'm still confused about the purpose for the breather.

I don't think the rack & pinion gear actually get lubricated from the PS fluid. If in fact the rack & pinion don't get lubrication from the PS fluid, what is the PS fluid lubricating? I know Realtime must have done that for a reason.

Please correct me if I'm interpreting this wrong. I've never taken this assembly out so I'm just going by the info from the diagrams... The 'fluid flow diagram' from the helms service manual doesn't indicate any PS fluid going to the rack & pinion gear. (See pg 17-4) It just flows through the reservoir/pump assembly, the valve body unit, and the power cylinder. It looks like the rack & pinions gears are completely isolated. I don't have a scanner so I can't post the picture. Can anyone post it for me?

Also if you look at the first picture on page 17-8 of the Helms, you'll notice that part of the teeth from the rack stick out of the assembly. It's probably hidden underneath the rubber boot. How is this part of the rack sealed if there is actually PS fluid on the other side of the seal?

Could I get away with just doing the following and get the same results? -> Looping the hoses from the PS pump assembly and draining 50-75% of the PS fluid? Less fluid=less resistance.



[Modified by R8dR, 2:46 AM 6/2/2002]

[qtiger]

Good info.

When you have two barb fittings you will need a hose to connect them or double back into itself. Acura part # 53735 sr3 960 Listed as a "power cooler" works perfectly for this application. Should retail for $14.62. It is only a short rubber hose that doubles back 180 degrees but you will not be able to get a normal heater hose or fuel/air hose to do so without kinking.

I believe that all non-GSRs already have this hose. Its the loopback hose from the power steering lines that go from the pump to the front bumper, where the oil cooler would be on GSRs. If anyone needs clarification on this I can post a page from the factory manual. Its 17-23 for those of you with the manual.

Save yourself a few bucks.


[Modified by qtiger, 12:25 PM 5/20/2002]