R-Lug

Since these are somewhat new to the market, I wanted to write a review on them in hopes of answering any questions about them along with just giving general information and pictures to illustrate what these coilovers are all about.

Having been through numerous suspension setups in my lifetime, some great and some not so great, I came upon the PIC Performance Coilover and decided to look into them in greater detail. I went to their website, PICPerformance.com, and I learned a lot about their coilovers just from the website. All the information about how and where and what about their coilovers are posted. Shock dynos are posted as well. There are not many coilover companies that have a website with information about their products readily available for the consumer to see. My curiosty has now got the best of me. So I decided to give the owner, Al, a call to ask general questions. He's very knowlegeable about suspension theory, he answered all of my questions and is a stand up guy to deal with. to Al.

Okay, so I've decided to purchase the PIC Select Coilovers. These are PIC's line of adjustable coilovers. The PIC Apex's Coilovers are fixed damping coilovers with no adjustability.

I decided to purchase them from one of PIC's Authorized Dealers, RevLine Motors. Made the order with Chuong from RevLine and in 4 business days the coilovers arrive via UPS to my doorstep.


Here's the box they come in.





Within the big box are four individual boxes with each coilover wrapped up. Notice the cushions on the top and bottom.


Here's a closer look. I couldn't help it, I had to smell them... ahhhhhh the smell of brand new coilovers, very distinct If you decide to purchase these, DON'T FORGET TO SMELL THEM before you install them, if you don't, you'll regret it. Notice the instruction booklet on how to install them, in color too.


Okay!, here's what the coilover looks like fresh out of the plastic. Notice the gold **** on the top of the coilover, that's how you know that you're looking at the Selects


Here are the two rears together.


Just a closer look at the adjustment ***** on the top of the coilovers. I think they're made of 18k gold.


Here's how they look when looking down on them.


There's a marco shot for you. Turn left for soft and right for hard.


Here are the two rears together.


Another one for those who just like looking at pictures.


Onto intalling them. This is the front installed.


Here's how the shock tower looks from the engine bay


Another angle of the front install


Hmmm, figured out what application the coilovers are going on yet? Here's the rear.


Another rear shot.


Here's a picture of the front. Notice the numbers on the coils. The last number says 14, that's my spring rate. 14k Front.


Another angle of the front assembly.


Here's what some good ol' flash can do for you.


Another shock tower engine bay pic.


So did you guess DC2?? Here's how the car looks after the install. Yes, I like to ride quite low. Hence the 14k Front Spring Rate


Here's a closer view. Notice the red workout ball in the background? If you do, you're being too observative.


This is how it sits in the front.


The rear looks like this.


Me and crazy angles.

4.1.2007 Update


5.25.2006 Update



Overall Appearance:
I like how they look. I like the color scheme, espeacially the white coils and the gold adjustment **** on top as you can see in the pictures above. Top notch stuff.

How's the ride?
I opted to go with 14k F and 8k R. Reason being is that you want it to be stiff in the front if you're going to riding low so you don't bottom out and or to prevent your upper control arms from hitting the shock tower. I don't recommend or advocate riding low with any suspension unit and these are NOT intended for the sole purpose of riding low, these are track proven coilovers that I choose to street with occasional track time. The 14Ks in the front is not that stiff to me, it is very bearable and perfect as far as stiffness goes FOR ME, different people have different opinions on what's comfortable and what's not. The rears are 8k. IMO, the rears are stiffer then the front. Even though there's a big discrepancy btw the rates, you have to understand that there's virtually no weight in the rear vs. the front where the motor and tranny hold a lot of the weight. Together, this combo is perfect for MY application and liking.

Rebound Damping:
As you know, these are the Selects, which means that the shock is adjustable in respect to rebound, the upward movement of the piston in the shock. Those gold adjustment ***** on the top are what controlls your damping. There's 8 levels of damping that you, the driver, can control and let me tell you, YOU CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE!!! First, let me describe the clicks on the **** as you turn it. There's a noticeable click for each of the eight settings. You will NOT have to gauge where you're at, no guessing involved. These DO NOT have limitless damping, so there's no worrying about being too stiff like some other coilovers. The clicks tell you exactly what level you're on, so you'll be consistent with your settings and feel confident that you're setting the right side the same as the left side. I started with the softest setting and worked my way up to the stiffest setting. At full stiff, WOW... it's amazing feels very crisp and P.I.C. (Power In Control) Even at level 5 of 8, you can definately feel the difference. The range of damping is great on these. When my GF is in the car, I'll have it set on a softer setting, and when she's not riding with me, I'll turn it to a sitffer setting and have some fun. I love it To me, that's functionality. When you just want to cruise and not be aggressive, set your suspension to a more passive mode. When you want to rip up some turns and use these coilovers for what they're intended to do, turn up the stiffness. That's why I got the Selects.

Okay, here's where they will SHINE: At the track
I have not tracked these coilovers yet. I want to so bad to see and experience how they really compare to my other setups. With 14k F and 8k R, I figure I'll get moderate understeer. Upon anticipating this, I will mate an ITR 23mm Rear Sway bar in the rear along with a strut bar to really stiffen up the back so as to get it to counter how stiff it is in the front. SURPRISINGLY, I've taken some twisties on some of my favorite roads and the car seems VERY neutral, with minimal understeer. I really think the ITR sway will correct it to my liking. I'm guessing since the car is so low, that understeer is somewhat prevented. I still need to play with the damping settings to see what works well, afterall that's what adjustable damping is all about. These coilovers ARE THE REAL DEAL.

My Suggestions for Spring Rates:
Daily Driving with comfort in mind and not being too low: 8kF 6kR
Sacrifice some comfort for performance: 10kF 8KR
Performance over comfort not too low: 12kF 10KR
Performance over comfort, pretty low stance 14KF 10KR
Performace with some comfort, pretty low stance 14kF 8KR
Track Setup 10KF 12KR
Track Setup2 12kF 14KR

Note: These are MY preferred spring rates. Everyone has their own opinion on what works. PIC has preset spring rates that's suggested for the consumer, but if you want custom rates and custome valving, PIC will take care of that for you. Just be sure you know what you're doing when it comes to selecting custom rates. That's why there's preset rates already,that's where the majority will fall.

Conclusion:
There are MANY setups in the market today that are quality products. The PIC Selects belong in that class for sure. The quality is there along with R & D and shock dynos to prove it. On the track, these coilovers have proven to be winners as well. Take a look on the PICPerformance website for track info on these coilovers. Like I've said, I've been through many suspension setups in my lifetime, the PIC Selects are my favorite to date. That's not to say that I'll try another setup in the future, but presently these satisfy me in everyway. Honda makes great quality products. Everyone knows the quality of OEM Honda, it's just nice to know that an aftermarket product can deliver Honda OEM type quality.

Thanks to:
Al and Jim from PIC Performance

Chuong from RevLine Motors<---If you all want these, order from this man. His communication with me on the ordering process was constant, he replies promptly to emails, gave me a great price, very professional individual to deal with.

Chuong Nguyen - RevLine Motors
RevlineMotors@SBCGlobal.net
816-221-4411

Thanks for viewing. If you have any questions either PM me or ask here and I'll try to answer them the best that I can. I hope you enjoyed the review. I'll post more pictures when I take some more and I'll update on how these perform on the track ASAP. I can't wait to get out there. Thanks again.


Modified by R-Lug at 1:48 AM 7/28/2007

George Knighton

I reset this thread to eliminate the fighting.

I do not see anything wrong, especially, with posting impressions of a suspension by a user for whom this was evidently a considerable expense and a major improvement for his personal car.

Do not bump the thread. If you want to discuss the suspension and how it is installed, that is fine. Things like this have gone into ITR Forum many, many times in the past without any issues.

I do not think that the original poster is a shill for the manufacturer. Maybe he's a fan, but I do not think he is a shill.

If, however, the original poster received any kind of compensation at all for his comments and evident endorsement, then he should reveal it now in order to retain credibility.

People in the DC2-know might take issue with some of the comments that were made in the post.

For example, if you are on the track with a car in which it is likely you will go into threshold braking from 140 miles per hour or more, then you really need 14K springs on the nose. Most of the people who put 14K springs on the nose are going to want 16K springs or more on the back to help with rotation, but there are other ways to accomplish this.

Why you'd only need 12K springs with the PIC suspension might be a good topic for discussion. Perhaps the valving is significantly different from the Showa N1 suspensions that we are familiar with.

FalkenSiR

Are these turned all the way down? It looks like they don't allow much variation in ride height as the threaded section is so small.

Great review, btw.

R-Lug

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

People in the DC2-know might take issue with some of the comments that were made in the post.

For example, if you are on the track with a car in which it is likely you will go into threshold braking from 140 miles per hour or more, then you really need 14K springs on the nose. Most of the people who put 14K springs on the nose are going to want 16K springs or more on the back to help with rotation, but there are other ways to accomplish this.

Why you'd only need 12K springs with the PIC suspension might be a good topic for discussion. Perhaps the valving is significantly different from the Showa N1 suspensions that we are familiar with.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The Showa N1 is a different unit and one cannot make parallels to the PIC Selects. 14k Spring rate coupled with different valvings will yield very different results. In the review, it was stated that understeer WAS expected with those spring rates, BUT surprisingly the car remained quite neutral on some twisties, and that's with just a GSR 13mm rear sway. So the 14K F is doing fine with this setup. Reason why 12K F was not chosen is due to the ride height of the car, I wanted it to be stiffer in the front for street use. Would 12K F vs. 14K F make the car rotate better? Yes probably so, but with an ITR rear sway and some damping tuning, I'm confident I can get the car to behave the way I want it to.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If, however, the original poster received any kind of compensation at all for his comments and evident endorsement, then he should reveal it now in order to retain credibility.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The only compensation was the compensation to purchase the coilovers. I wish I was getting paid like a celebrity endorsing these coilovers, but unfortunately I'm just a regular person in civilian clothing.




Modified by R-Lug at 3:31 PM 11/22/2006

R-Lug

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J.MONEY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are these turned all the way down? It looks like they don't allow much variation in ride height as the threaded section is so small.

Great review, btw. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks. In the pictures yes they were turned all the way down, that was the way they came in the box, however I turn them back up b/c the rear was tucking all the way to the rim, and that's without losing any preload.

slammed_93_hatch

In my experance, in-experance can have a huge effect on how some one thinks a car is handeling.


When i first started driving my race car i started out with a suggestion from a fellow race, it was close to a 400lbs split from the front to rear (rear was higher). I took it out for a few laps came back in and droped spring rate in the rear, i thought the car was WAYYYYY to loose. went to a 200lbs split and i thought this was the perfect setup. 5 races later im back up to that 400lbs split, and happy with were it is. Ill this time my skill level was changing and i was driving the car harder and harder, picking up lots of time.

what does 14k = in lbs

BlueIntegraBoy

iTrader: (5)

Great pics. How much were they?

R-Lug

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueIntegraBoy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Great pics. How much were they?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks, I purchased the adjustable selects for right under 1k.

FalkenSiR

When turned all the way soft, do they feel underdamped? overdamped? bouncy? how big is the shock rod relative to the bump stop?

PIC Performance

14kg/mm = ~784lbs/in. Multiplying by 56 gives you the quick and dirty estimate. Google is even quicker, and more accurate.

R-Lug

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J.MONEY &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When turned all the way soft, do they feel underdamped? overdamped? bouncy? how big is the shock rod relative to the bump stop?</TD></TR></TABLE>

No not at all. I have the rears set level 1 right now and it doesn't feel underdamped. Usually I'll have it set at 5 of 8 but I just wanted to feel how they were on level 1 today. The feeling when underdamped usually results in a bouncy ride, and it is for sure not that on level 1. From there, it gets stiffer all the way up to level 8.

The shock piston is 46mm and shock body is 54mm. I'm not sure about the bumpstop, there's a cover over them and I didn't take the cover off to look.

Hope that helps

v3ritas

i wish they had a bb4 application i'd be all over it

Ps - Great review, I wish more people would take some time to do write ups like this It would help so many of us when deciding on a suspension

R-Lug

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by v3ritas &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i wish they had a bb4 application i'd be all over it

Ps - Great review, I wish more people would take some time to do write ups like this It would help so many of us when deciding on a suspension</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks so much. That makes me feel great b/c it took me awhile to write the review. I'm glad it's doing its job.

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by R-Lug &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That makes me feel great b/c it took me awhile to write the review. </TD></TR></TABLE>
It's how Honda-Tech started, and it's what Honda-Tech is supposed to be. Thanks.

1320spTurtle

GREAT REVIEW! i was planning on picking up the basics for a CRX. since they come with extended top hats and shorter shock bodies for the front, THE ONLY full coilover for a crx that comes designed for a crx

Cory Matthews

subscribed, because i want to read your comments after you have tracked them.

btw im just wondering what credibility do you have?

George Knighton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Cory Matthews &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">btw im just wondering what credibility do you have?</TD></TR></TABLE>
You can tell from the language he has used and the kind of informationn that he has presented that he is a typical user doing one of his first major improvements.

Everything we write is all just our own opinion, although some of us will have vested interests that people should be aware of: https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1705179

All too often, people do not make it clear that they have a vested interest, which is why I hinted in an earlier post that if the reviewer were compensated in any way for his review, which appears to be an endorsement, then he should have declared it.

I have exchanged PM's with both the original poster and with PIC Performance, and I do not think there is anything underhanded going on.

It's just a regular user trying to share his experience.

This is what Honda-Tech is supposed to be about.

I gather than since you queried the original poster about his credibility [sic] that you might have a contrary opinion of what somebody should use on his DC2, in the same price range.

If you want to ask the original poster specific questions, comparing your system to the one he bought, that would be fine as long as the discussion remains respectful and intelligent.

kcjohnnyboy

nice review man

JDMRice

Nice job on teh review, are these in the same ballpark as d2, + ksports?

Vitt1

GK, I hope I'm not breaking any of your rules by posting a comment that's not directly related to the suspension install, but it's more along these lines:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People in the DC2-know might take issue with some of the comments that were made in the post.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't need to ask the obvious question, but when I read these comments from the OP I could no longer take this "review" serious:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay, here's where they SHINE: At the track. I have not tracked these coilovers yet. </TD></TR></TABLE>

R-Lug

Thanks everyone for viewing the review.

As far as some of the comments that were made, some were fair and some were geared towards some friction.

To respectfully answer some q's, credibility is a relative term when it is applied to this review. If having used GC with 550F/650R paired with Koni Yellows, Neuspeed Full Race Coilovers, SRR S1s, and Eibach Sportlines w/Tokico Blues considered credibility then I suppose I'm credible. If I'm not being compensated by PIC to spend a lot of my personal time to write this review is credible, then I suppose I'm credible. If I occasionally track my car by flagging on the weekends to get free track time with different suspensions that I've utilized in the past considered credible, then I suppose I'm credible. But honestly, how credible I consider myself is not what's important here. This is just a review with pictures and my personal impressions of this setup and that was the purpose of this review. I thank everyone for your inquiries, I hope that I've answered your questions in a manner that will provide users with a greater knowledge of a coilover setup.

Are these in the same class as D2s and K-Sports? I don't know and I cannot comment on product that I have no real world experience with.

The comment where I said "Okay, here's where they SHINE"... I'm sorry for the wording, what I should've said was, "Here's where they WILL SHINE"... One word makes a world of a difference. Well, how can make that prediction?? Based on real world usage of these coilovers by others who have actually tracked them in HPDEs with great results.

Thanks, have a good 1


Modified by R-Lug at 10:44 PM 11/27/2006

HamiltonRex

Hey good post. I can get these locally in Canada for about $1050 (the selects). It is between these and the omni/GC setup, These are quite a bit cheaper once i factor in duty and exhange rate.

I think im going to go with these, and the 12k from 10k rear for my GSR Integra. Looks good slammed, thats how i plan on riding. I also plan to do autocross just for something different a few times next season. Since this is my reliable/DD i dont plan to do Too many mods

Thanks, i think i will go with this setup.

1_slow_crx

i have this on my crx. 12k Front / 10k Rear.
Have done 1 auto-x and one hpde with this set up. I have a crx. It was my first auto-x with crx. 1st auto-x in a year, and first and only hpde. None the less at the auto-x i felt i was only limited by really shitty tires and an inexpirienced driver (me). And at the hdpe i felt the only left down was me and the brakes which boilded the first day. Great handler. but i cant compare it to anything other then my GTI 03. which all it did with a 28mm rear sway, eibach springs, and shocks.. all that car would do is understeer.

light and controlable oversteer with the stock Si rear sway.


For DD.. its not bad. can get a little bouncy if the road is really bad. But not too bouncy for me. Its not for ever one. im only 20. i got used to it very fast.


my only problem really is that the dust/whatevr covers on the front shocks gets stucks and got twisted up when i lower it more / raise it. not a real big isuue. might be due to install. not sure. not much space to see up there.

over all ... from me

PIC Performance

That happens when the dust boot gets snagged between where the lower washer and the piston rod meet. If nots a big deal, but if you have time, jack up the corner and lower the spring perch down far enough that you have a big enough gap between the spring and the upper mount, that you can get in there and pull the dust boot down so its not snagged anymore.

RC_Benjamin

do u know what the piston diameter is?