DC4_MADMAN

Been busy and havnt been able to get to the machine shop. Well today I am going, so Ill finally see if what needs to be done CAN be done. Ill post my findings later tonight.

vtecmissle

I would fill in the h23 manifold runners with devcon 2 part epoxy and port it down to the f intake port size. Just use it in the last 3 inches and make it taper and you should do well.

DC4_MADMAN

Ok, went to the machine shop. He had no problems with welding up the water port, or just opening the intake port mouths to match the H23 gasket. The only problem was that once the mouths were opened there would not be enough surface left to form a seal with the gasket, so he will have to add material to widen the surface area.

So I left the head at the shop and I am having him do it. Should have it back by mid January.

Its costing 250.00 and I am getting the following done-

hot tank the head
glass bead the head to remove all the carbon
Weld up the water port
weld on extra material to widen contact surface for gasket
port out the intake runner mouths to match the H23 gasket

Ill update with some new pics in a few weeks.

Nocture

pics!

DC4_MADMAN

Update-

Machine shop should be done with head by end of the week for the work done to match the IM ports to the intake ports on the head. Will post pics once I have it back.

I also aquired an H23 thermostat housing that I will need to modify to clear the Vtec solinoid. Will also post pics of that when I have both the head and the manifold back.



Also did some searching on valvetrain and here is the plan for that-

Ferrea valves
Rocket motorsports valve springs
Rocket motorsports Ti retainers
OEM valve spring seats
OEM valve guides(Ferrea says these will be fine with there valves)
WEB Camshafts cam

fastazzf22

I might be bringing this back from the dead . But I am very curious of the final product . Did everything work out ?

I am getting ready to do this swap this weekend and I am searching my *** off for information... I am looking for a how to .. but no luck ...

TouringAccord

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by fastazzf22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am looking for a how to .. but no luck ... </TD></TR></TABLE>

have you looked in the FAQ?

fastazzf22

I searched ... But I will def try again ... I was up until 4am reading and researching ... Everything I came up with always half assed the topic... But I will search some more ...

fastazzf22

But still details are in limbo ... No one can vouch that this did work and not leak coolant everywhere, leak vaccum like crazy . Or nor is has been Dyno proven to be effictive.. So it looks like I am going to have to make a Real How to on this swap . Port matching the intake to the cly head is my biggest question.. I have put the f22 intake manifold gasket on the h23 IM and there is a big difference.. Hella difference. Without port matching the cly head .. I think it will kill me on a boosted application. Either way ,, If you can point to a real How to - on this swap that would be great ... another thing is the thermostat housing , No one can vouch that using a h23 TH will work on the f22b1 motors with out leaking like crazy . I read about relocating the housing ... But I just dont like that idea.. I am still pondering about what should be the correct and effective way to make this swap work .

TouringAccord

well, probably the best discussions so far would be this one and the one from AD which is linked the FAQ.

Port matching the IM runners to the head is going to be a job. I was thinking about adding material to the head so I could open the ports in the head and still be left with enough material to sit against to seal the IM to the head. But I'm not sure if this is even possible or not, didn't go any further than the idea itself.

As for the thermostat housing. I would cut the coolant pipe from a F22Ax/H23A1 engine as well as your stock coolant pipe. Keep the part of your stock pipe that goes into the water pump area and then match the F22Ax/H23A1 thermostat housing part of the pipe to it. Weld them together so that the pipe is going into the thermo housing properly. I feel this will work but no proof to know for sure.

There is also an issue with the coolant port from the head to the IM which I believe the OP addressed as well. IIRC the port on the head is more oval shaped and the port on the H23 IM is circular. I would add material to the port on the IM and then open it a bit the other way to make it match the port on the head, this should give you enough material to seal against between the IM and head so you don't leak coolant.

I would like to stress one thing, everything above is based on memory and theories. I started to look at doing this to my F22B1 but plans changed and I stopped looking into it. My theories are based on discussions with other people as well as looking at the H23 IM gasket on the F22B1 head as well as the F22B1 IM gasket on the H23 IM. I never started any modifications on anything so I don't know for sure if any of my theories will work or not, but they seem like they would

If you do go through with this, by all means take plenty of pictures and do a write-up

fastazzf22

Yeah I have read many many threads about this matter. I have come up with a plan that is not going to be an easy swap. Which is perfectly fine with me . I have a spare f22b1 motor sitting . So I plan on using it for a mach-up.

One option is the is talking to Bisi Moto and seeing about a custom made intake for the F22b1 motors. They might have already made one. But whats the fun in that.

They only way I see the intake even serve its purpose is having the head and intake manifold visit the machine shop . Without port matching , the air flow would be violent inside the intake. Which would be the correct method for this swap. I just need a machinist opinion about having enough room for the intake to seat. One question is " I am not using the egr sytem. On the pic of the


The mix matched port, with the red ciricle , is that the egr port. And can that be abandoned, blocked off or Hondabon . Whatever would work the most effectively.


As far as the coolant pipe for the thermostat housing . My intentions are to take a pipe from a h23a1 motor, use the end going to the housing and weld it to the pipe going in the f22 block. This way is has what it was made for , and should work with out a problem.
Which I just read what you wrote and I agree with you , I can see it being the best way.


Well , tomorrow I am talking to a machine shop . Get some prices to see if this will even fit the budget. And to see if this is going to be worth the money spent. No need in spending 1000 bux to get 3 ft lbs of torque. Or what ever would come from it.

I have full intentions of making a write up for this swap . Only if it can be done without having all kind of complications. Someone needs to make one and prove that this swap is worth the effort. So far from what I have read, its hasnt been successful . And there will be pics on all steps and process.

I am sure I will be back to get some more opinions.

Nocture

I was finished taking the B1 IM off when I forgot about the coolant problem I would be running into, so now I have to put all this back on the motor and look for the F23 thermostat housing and see if I can modify that to work with the H23 IM. I just need a good pic of house all this looks, so I can get a better idea of how it looks.


In the accordinglydone forums, scubamunkey used the F23.

QUOTE:
Now comes the cooling system:
I used the f22 hard pipe with the f23 thermostat housing, because the f22 housing has to mate with the head (water flows through it).

Well to make the thermostat fit you have to cut off one of its legs.

now here comes the trust part?.bolt the housing on to the mani, only one bolt will line up, if you?re good you can get two, with a lot more cutting/grinding. I went the one bolt method, no leaks yet, I will keep yall posted on that part.

2kdrift

take a closer look at the intake ports. not only will you have to move the water port port match the head to the h23 manifold. but you would also need to port the h23 manifold, and there is barely enough material to port match to the head.(try using the h23 gasket and you will see this). so basically if you did all that you would end up with a HUGE runner for a SOHC motor. i really dont think its worth it. most likely you would lose power unless you had aftermarket cams and so on.....

2kdrift

thats the coolant port not the egr. the egr is the small one that lines up perfectly

Nocture

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vtecmissle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would fill in the h23 manifold runners with devcon 2 part epoxy and port it down to the f intake port size. Just use it in the last 3 inches and make it taper and you should do well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was thinking of that but then I hear the metal would expand a bit with heat, makes me wonder if the epoxy would come loose or what not.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by camdizawg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">take a closer look at the intake ports. not only will you have to move the water port port match the head to the h23 manifold. but you would also need to port the h23 manifold, and there is barely enough material to port match to the head.(try using the h23 gasket and you will see this). so basically if you did all that you would end up with a HUGE runner for a SOHC motor. i really dont think its worth it. most likely you would lose power unless you had aftermarket cams and so on.....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, I have grinded the water port over a little on the IM side. Hopefully that would relieve some pressure build up at that point and have better flow. I'm trying to stay positive on that point lol

2kdrift

ya i REALLY wanted this mod to work.i was not worried about the water issue as that can be moved, also if you look at the head itself the water port is wider then it is on the manifold so no problem there, like vtecmissle said the only way to really make this work is combine the two manifolds and use the f22 runners BUT what about the water and egr internal channels ?? that would also need to be connected to the f22 manifold and the channels are in different locations (not impossible). if I was to do this i would NOT use defcon i would have it welded. bottom line is i probally would have done it if i thought it would MAKE power, but i really dont think so. a better option is to use the h22 plenum direct fit.

CD5 Jeebies!

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raceACCORDingly &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so what block is it?

curious why of all heads you chose a single cam f22 vtec head.</TD></TR></TABLE>

me too Im in for the long haul to see the results of the madness...but I know that the F22a head has better flow caracteristics...but then you couldnt use the H23 IM right?

Nocture

This wasn't a thread about head swaps, just the h23 intake manifold swap

But, now I have to find that F23 thermo housing (just checked ebay, none are up) dammit!


Modified by Nocture at 10:12 PM 9/6/2007

TouringAccord

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by camdizawg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> a better option is to use the h22 plenum direct fit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

a direct fit onto what intake manifold?

another option for the F22Bx heads is the F23Ax IM. I don't remember if the runners were longer or shorter but the plenum is bigger and if memory serves me correctly it fit directly onto the F22Bx heads. I believe there is a thread on this somewhere.

2kdrift

i was told the h22 manifold should fit any f22 runner. i could definetly be wrong

Nocture

correction, you have to use the H23 or F22a6 and the F22AX thermo housing, I tried cross referencing the part numbers and they're all the same. Cannot use F22B2, B1, or F23's thermo housing

tribalh23

hi i'm a new member and i've read some intresting stuff here and i'd like to ask anyone for help i'm looking for info on how to build my accord 93 f22a1 to support at lesat 10 psi of boost, i already have a garret from a 2.2 sabb and i basically wanted to know where to get the pistons,rods,springs and parts i'd need to do this, and also what would u guys recomend to use for my project,,thanks

smoov_w4gon

WHERE DID THE PICS GO!? i wanna do this

dark_stalker

my brother did this swap and he had no trouble putting it on other then shaving the top flange for clearance.

arkangel2487

what ever happen to this thread did dc4 ever finish the work?