koczeka

My 1st attempt on 86mm was a failure (due to too high EGT I beleive, AFR was excellent), pistons expanded into the cylinder wall very badly after a 20 miles. I had no other choice, but trying 86.5mm. Firt engine startup will happen in a few days... I want to drive the car daily. I will use euro 100 octane fuel.

So, 86.5mm, 14:1cr, piston to wall clearance is 0.0043''... How long it can last if EGT and AFR will be OK now?

Thanks (and sorry for bad english)!

high_revs

if the tune is right, it should last until you have to rebuild it again... why was the egt so high before??

CRXEE8

Euro 100 octane is like US 94 octane... I don't think it's enough if you want to run a decent amount of timing. A buddy has used euro 98 octane in a high 12:1 engine but that's pushing it.

koczeka

There was no EGT.
Nobody knows the reason for the 1st reason.
Too high EGT is just my best guess.

koczeka

I do not care about high timing... just make it reliable on euro 100 octane.

J1A1H

i live in london england and i want to run a higher compression but they said that the maximum is 12:5:1 on 100euro octane fuel AT A PUSH!!! if anything more you will need race gas.

Forrest Gump 9

I don't know what to say except good luck. You are very much pushing the limit of the HG and the limit of the fuel at te same time. This built is usually reserve for race car only. Again, good luck.

high_revs

yeah if the octane is equal to 94 u.s gas then it wont last....you will be pinging your motor to death. thats what prob blew your last motor if it was that high in compression

non-VTEC

i would tow the car to a good tuner right away or else you will be putting in a new engine soon. 86.5mm is a pretty big bore on a B series engine and 14:1CR is just way to much unless its a race car.

keep good race fuel in it at all times and have a good tune and you should not have a problem.....hopefully.

b19coupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by koczeka &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My 1st attempt on 86mm was a failure (due to too high EGT I beleive, AFR was excellent), pistons expanded into the cylinder wall very badly after a 20 miles.</TD></TR></TABLE>
You need to figure out what killed the first motor or this motor will suffer the same fate. High EGT's are not a cause, they are an effect. Like a lean air fuel mixture can cause high EGT's.

d16dcoe45

That is insane--I have also heard that since they rate the octane differently in Europe that it would be an American premium--92-93 octane. So, you are going to run 14:1 compression on 93 octane fuel (which at least in America there can be some legal variation with octane--so it might be 91)--with an 86.5mm bore--I don't want to sound negative--but if it was me, I would sell the block to a drag racer--or someone who wants to experiment--for a daily driver I would not trust it-- and do a reasonable rebuild. I used to run 13:1 compression on real 100 octane unleaded--and it wasn't enough to take advantage of the compression without dialing back the timing a tad imo--14:1 I would be looking at 105 at least. I think you are going to have problems down the road--you say it will be a DD--what if you are in traffic and it overheats a little--with sleeves that thin---one overheat and the HG is history. I know its not what you want to hear but I wouldn't put it in the car--keep the head and cams, and build a stock bore or a more conservative sleeve block if you can afford it.


Modified by d16dcoe45 at 9:28 AM 11/5/2006

d16dcoe45

Also, as far as I know--the IB sleeves keep some of the orginal surrounding aluminum like the OEM blocks (if I am wrong about that, please let me know--from reading the IB articles he was really pushing that process-which is similar to the way JG sleeves). I had a 79mm JG sleeved block--which uses the same process--they machine the original stock sleeve out, leave the surrounding aluminum and put a ductile iron sleeve in--so it looks like a "stock" motor with a huge bore. At 79mm, the aluminum that surrounds the sleeve cracked between 1 and 2 cylinders--which let the cylinder move around--which blew the HG--wouldn't hold a HG after that--this happened with a conservative tune--28-29 total timing 12.5 afr. So the sleeve on your 86.5mm I am sure is VERY thin--because its probably so thin, the cylinders will move around enough to compromise ring seal to where a smaller bore motor would probably make equal power. Also compression has alot to do with how thin you can make the sleeve--14:1 is very high--maybe try getting a thicker HG if you run the motor. Do you have a block guard or posts to brace the cylinders--they will move around quite a bit otherwise. I am only speaking from my experience with a 79mm d16 block--which is really pushing it for a street motor. Most of the sleeve companies stop (for a street motor) at 85mm on a b and 78mm on a d. Sure you can go higher, maybe for a drag motor that goes 1/4 mile at a time and may see 25-40 runs between rebuilds--figure 30 total miles including dyno time between rebuilds.


Modified by d16dcoe45 at 9:24 AM 11/5/2006


Modified by d16dcoe45 at 9:25 AM 11/5/2006


Modified by d16dcoe45 at 9:29 AM 11/5/2006

koczeka

There is no tuner... I have to do it myself.
I am the 1st in Hungary to try sg. like this!

koczeka

NO IDEA... AFR was perfect according to LC1. (also, max TPS was 15-20%, we have not experienced any sign of detonation!). At the 1st attemp I used a ~B18C1 stock ignition. This time I plan to use a stock JDM B16A...
An ignition table would be a giant help for me.


Modified by koczeka at 6:28 PM 11/5/2006

koczeka

The cooling is significantly increased (radiator, fan, thermostat, fan switch) and there is winter time now.

IB replaced the whole sleeve, no stock surrounding aluminium left. Also it has a block guard. According to Jeff the sleeve wont be a problem.

JDogg

imo the piston-wall clearance is too tight for this type of setup.. and this is NOT going to work at all on pump gas. its going to knock like hell which is going to require that you pull timing which will increase the egts and the motor will cook itself... i suspect that it will last about 20 miles

d16dcoe45

Well--people here (including myself) have told you what they think--you asked for a guess at longevity. I personally would find a different bottom end--but if you are going to run it, the only way to find out longevity is to drive it with a solid tune. Do EVERYTHING within your power to tune it properly and running at a good temperature--and don't run it on pump gas, ever.

quicksilver1689

I never would put 14:1 , pumpgas, and reliability in the same sentence.

SkankyEJ7

dude, just do like 11.8-12.5:1 for your c/r seriously. you cant run that high of compression on pump gas and expect it last long AT ALL

d16dcoe45

I would honestly not go over 11.2-11.3 if I was only going to be using pump gas. This way-you have a little margin of error incase of heat or a bad tank of gas.

91SiZ6

Everyone's favorite thing to say on H-T...

I have a friend running a Toyota 22R/20R built race engine running 14:1 and some change. He runs 115 (might even be 125) octane race fuel and the engine never sees the streets, just the race track every Saturday night.

d16dcoe45

I personally believe in not "getting by" with compression but using it to its fullest extent without having to compromise the tune at all. If I can run 11.5 on a great tune--with power making AFRs and optimized timing, wouldn't that be better than having a similar setup on 13:1 (with the same fuel) --because with the 13:1 I would have to run it a bit richer and maybe dial back the timing a little--probably putting me at the same power level as the 11.5 motor--only with less reliability. At that point the 13:1 becomes nothing more than a number to brag about. That is it. I fell victim to this on my last build--it was 13:1 and I only used 100 octane--which really wasn't enough octane. I actually was planning to use a thinner gasket to get closer to 13.5 or more--why? I was thinking how "impressive" sounding it would be--of course the power was important--but in the whole scheme of things--it was a bad idea. I know sit at 11.9-12.0 (I could have easily zero decked this motor to get 12.5+--but I didn't) and I can run all the timing that makes power. Its a brand new build and I have only been running it on 100 octane unleaded--If I can get by with a 100/93 mix, I will. UNLESS, you are going to be running 110 octane all the time--then you can run all the compression you want. But 100 octane gas is alot cheaper than 110 octane.

b20vtech

ur motor will go "BOOM" i garauntee it!!!

xDicktonesx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SB tuning &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if the tune is right, it should last until you have to rebuild it again... why was the egt so high before??</TD></TR></TABLE>


that is like saying "why wipe your *** if youre just going to eventually **** again?"

worst answer evAr.

but no seriously, look all over honda-tech... the only place on the internet where people drive 14:1 86.5mm motors on pump gas and have no problems at all cuz they have a "hella good tune dawg"

it doesnt matter how long the motor will last becuase it wont hold a HG at 86.5mm for more than 1 or 2 runs.

quicksilver1689

22r's r gay motors