hondaracin24

Alright I am sooo torn between these two options. In a few months I will be able to afford either of them with about $3k to start off with. I could go the JDM H22 route with LSD for less than $2500 shipped from Hmotorsonline.com or turbo the f22. Im willing to go either way I just need persuasion to point me in the right direction. One of my biggest questions is would a f22 turbo with a stock tranny with roughly 250hp be just as fast as a stock jdm h22? The reason that im asking this is because I want something that is a little quicker off the line as far as 0-60 time. I know the turbo route it depends on the type of the turbo but hypothetically which one would you think be quicker to get you up to speed? The h22 has slightly more torque and a better designed tranny to get you up and running where as the f22 needs the extra torque from the turbo to lower the 0-60 time. Also for those of you that have turbocharged vehicles how much do you guys think you spend approximatley on maintenence on turboed vehicles each year? Im willing to dish out any extra money is needed as long as the car is producing enough power that will satify my needs...roughly 250hp to start off with. Can someone please inspire me?

P_Adams

I'll offer an opinion and we'll wait to see what else pop's up.
Straight line racing; off the line performance = H22 manual w/LSD
Highway cruising, in gear = F22b2 Turbo

Because of the turbo lag, there would be issues while grabbing the next gear - unlike the Manual H22
While the turbo pulls against any load. That's why they work better for highway, where everythings all locked up and you just put your foot in it.

P

stinker504

I have a F23 turbo so it's very similar to the F22. From my experience the stock F motor can not handle 250hp. My F motor seems to be good to around 220 daily. Several people have problems with ring lands going when they go past the 250 barrier.

If you're only looking for 250hp I would go with the H22. Get some head/cam work done, basic bolt ons and a good tune will get you where you want to be.

gianinline

satisfy?!... well... there's an 94 or 95 accord (automatic) with a F22 here in south florida doing 265whp with a turbo kit... btw... just turbo and psi..... no internals in the engine have been made..... ...guy who has helped build that car said to me... "..have you ever been inside of a 265whp accord.... that is ***ing fast from begining to top end.... the owner spend 4500 on that car!...."

...I will turbo too....

raceACCORDingly

f22 turbo.

if i had the money it would be h22 turbo.

d112crzy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stinker504 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have a F23 turbo so it's very similar to the F22. From my experience the stock F motor can not handle 250hp. My F motor seems to be good to around 220 daily. Several people have problems with ring lands going when they go past the 250 barrier.
.</TD></TR></TABLE>

o yes it can. f22 can take 300whp. its all in the tune I personally know someone right now who has been boosted for 4 months now, running at 303wtq. stock block. of course, he has some head work done, but not enough that will make such a huge difference.

stinker504

That's 4 months. Check back with him in a year. LOL

It sounds like he wan't something reliable.

JonnySBeee...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gianinline &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">satisfy?!... well... there's an 94 or 95 accord (automatic) with a F22 here in south florida doing 265whp with a turbo kit... btw... just turbo and psi..... no internals in the engine have been made..... ...guy who has helped build that car said to me... "..have you ever been inside of a 265whp accord.... that is ***ing fast from begining to top end.... the owner spend 4500 on that car!...."

...I will turbo too.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

just turbo and psi?? lets hope his tranny hangs in there

wen boosting remember its always different for every set-up 10psi on a sc32 is completely different than 10psi on a t3/t4

AFAccord

Is it just me, or is everyone forgetting about something?? If you were to boost an F-series motor to 250hp, then you should see about the same amount of torque right? 240-260ft/lbs? Where as the H series is going to be all top-end power, with less torque, especially at low end. I know I'd take 250hp and 250ft/lbs anyday over 250hp and ~200ft/lbs, not to mention the extra costs to build the H to that much output.

Now there are things to consider like what P_Adams was saying about pulling in gear, vs pulling from a stop.

Correct me if I'm wrong... But I know where I'm placing my money...

P_Adams

Being the old Fart that I am, a dual Personality vehicle has a certain appeal. I like Air Conditioning, listening to a few tunes and having the power under the hood to bury all those irritating Nissan drivers who seem to take great pleasure in aggravating Honda owners.
An H22, of course, has a certain appeal. But I'm past the point where I'm willing to put up with a sewing machine howling away under the hood. Give me a car that I can tool around town at 26mpg but yet get into it out on the highway.
I guess my preferences are based on my growing past 1/4 mile, and now concentrating on road racing (high performance driving).

P

d112crzy

ok then, if thats not good enough. Then how about midnite racer x? I'm sure some of you guys know who he is. He's been running over 250whp and tq for over a year. still boosted, and only getting bigger. yup, he's stock too.

like I said before, its all in the tuning.

Dont go around spreading lies. the f22 can handle more than 250hp. Dont be mad just because you cant tune.

hondaracin24

How reliable do you think the motor would be at 250hp being boosted? Ive also heard that the rings lands go after that mark? The car is obviously going to be a daily driver and im willing to put the money down for high performance. The biggest question is how much do you think the average person would be spending on parts that need to be repaired or replaced as far as turbocharged vehicles. The way i think of it is that boost will be better for the money but will slowly creep up to the same amount as a N/A H22. Someone correct me if im wrong.......

stinker504

I can tune just fine. That's why I have never blown a motor. All I can say is that I driven daily for over two years now on 200-220hp with no problems. You can go ahead and do what you want, but I say go with the H22. It'll be more reliable at 250hp.

fw190bvi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hondaracin24 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How reliable do you think the motor would be at 250hp being boosted? Ive also heard that the rings lands go after that mark? The car is obviously going to be a daily driver and im willing to put the money down for high performance. The biggest question is how much do you think the average person would be spending on parts that need to be repaired or replaced as far as turbocharged vehicles. The way i think of it is that boost will be better for the money but will slowly creep up to the same amount as a N/A H22. Someone correct me if im wrong.......</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you pull the motor and replace rings and do a rebuild on any worn parts (OEM replacment NOT upgrades) + a good tuner, 250whp should be very very safe. remember you can always just turn the boost down for daily driving to and from work, etc

another thing: before you go blow $3k on a motor, make sure you can afford repairs and that you can still have money left over. i dont know how many people ive seen end up having a rough time once they are out of college because they spent too much on their car, and now have no savings to help make downpayments, etc

P_Adams

The F23 had garnered the rep for weak Piston Ring lands, not it's F22 older brother.
If there are any specific things that I'll be doing when building an Engine built for boost would be four things:
1) Forged Pistons (stronger skirts / thicker decks) 8.5:1cr
2) Clevite CL77 Rod & Main bearings
3) High Pressure Oil Pump
4) "O" Ring imbedded Head Gasket

This would hold true for either the F22 or it's F23 younger brother.

YeuEmMaiMai

Ok time for my .02

I'd say from a simplicity and over all cost of swap and dyno runs required for a turbo setup, go H22a swap.

d112crzy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok time for my .02

I'd say from a simplicity and over all cost of swap and dyno runs required for a turbo setup, go H22a swap.</TD></TR></TABLE>

edit* this is not directed towards you, just everyone in general.


if you want something simple, people should just leave their car stock. or better yet, just dont get a car and ride a bike.

if you go into a project, expecting nothing bad to go wrong, you are dumb.

if you want things to be simple, do your research, that is the best way to try and avoid disasters.

to me, turboing is a lot easier than doing a swap, but thats just because I hate wires and dont like dealing with them.

o, and on a side note, you DO NOT have to dyno tune.

an h22 would cost anywhere from $1500-2k, then theres still some **** you gota go through and buy and what not. now, 2.5k, but thats if you swap it yourself. if you have a shop do it, thats another grand, so you're looking at over 3k.

a turbo, you can get a WHOLE turbo set up for under 2k, if you still wana do dyno runs, those should be less than 200 for a few hours of tuning and what not. thats still less than the swap and more whp and wtq than the swap.

i_kick_turtles

There's a guy on cb7tuner.com with 300whp/wtq on a stock f22ax. The f series turbo would be much faster, and cost less to get to your power goal. Even if you swap in an h22 and build it to 250hp, it will still have far less torque than the f22 turbo.

raceACCORDingly

twkdcd5 is making 335whp on a stock f22b1. bigdaddyvtec is making like 280whp on a stock f22b1 as well... lets see how long...

YeuEmMaiMai

if you dont tune your stuff, you be back in a short time crying about how your engine detonated....your choice....just last month someone blew up their welbero (SP) pistions cause their stuff wasn't tuned......good luck on that........

Eagle16nam

theres always the F20B also if your a F series fan theres a F20B and F20A why not consider that as an alternative?

d112crzy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you dont tune your stuff, you be back in a short time crying about how your engine detonated....your choice....just last month someone blew up their welbero (SP) pistions cause their stuff wasn't tuned......good luck on that........</TD></TR></TABLE>

who said anything about not tuning? i said you dont have to dyno tune. I can tune and know plenty people that can tune very well without a dyno. But like i said, if you get your street tune down to its best, you should NOT have to spend more than an hour at the dyno fine tuning.

raceACCORDingly

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you dont tune your stuff, you be back in a short time crying about how your engine detonated....your choice....just last month someone blew up their welbero (SP) pistions cause their stuff wasn't tuned......good luck on that........</TD></TR></TABLE>

walbro fuel pump?

wiseco pistons?

korney

go turbo, because I also have a f22 in my prelude, same as accords, well for the tranny, I dont think there is a big differnce between the accord and prelude, but the prelude tranny is has longer gearing so it would be better for turbo.
IMO I would go f22 turbo, so many people have jdm this jdm that. Just go for turbo. The only problem is rings, that cant hold that much boost. but a f22 can hold much more boost than a h22 can ever(without having to sleeve it)

d112crzy

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by korney &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">go turbo, because I also have a f22 in my prelude, same as accords, well for the tranny, I dont think there is a big differnce between the accord and prelude, but the prelude tranny is has longer gearing so it would be better for turbo.
IMO I would go f22 turbo, so many people have jdm this jdm that. Just go for turbo. The only problem is rings, that cant hold that much boost. but a f22 can hold much more boost than a h22 can ever(without having to sleeve it) </TD></TR></TABLE>

the h trannies are designed to withhold more power. The h23, imo, is a perfect tranny for boost an NA. I say this because it is the tranny that is mated to the engine with the most torque. Torque is one of the major things that wear down a tranny, launching and what not, slamming the gears, etc... also, the h23 tranny has a bit longer gears than the h22's, but also shorter than the f22, still good for highway driving tho.

and H23 tranny with an lsd=t3h win.