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Old 02-27-2006, 03:28 PM   #1
spooncivic1
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Default 50 trim vs 57 trim, T3/T04E on D16

im looking at a built Z6

SRP pistons
Eagle Rods
ZEX 59300
ZEX Ti retainers
CC-Fab Miniram Mani
3" ex/dp.
RC 750cc's
etc

im looking at a T3/T04E Stage 3 wheel, .63 Turbine A/R. now the question is how much more power, spool time, and lag will the 57 trim have vs the 50 trim. i will probably be revving this to at least 8k, possibly 8.5k depending where it stops making power.

my ultimate goal is 350-375whp on pump (93oct.)
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Old 02-27-2006, 04:00 PM   #2
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use the red word thats at the top right.
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Old 02-27-2006, 04:12 PM   #3
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Default Re: 50 trim vs 57 trim, T3/T04E on D16 (spooncivic1)

Here's a graph from my old civic. 57 trim .63AR, stock D16Z6, 10 psi, pump gas.

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-27-2006, 04:33 PM   #4
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Default Re: (rainmanef)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmanef
use the red word thats at the top right.
i did dumbass...its kinda hard to search for 2 letter words Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-27-2006, 04:45 PM   #5
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Default Re: (spooncivic1)

ever thought about a .48 exhaust side instead of a .63? that will cut down on your lag if you are concerned about that. if you look at the dyno posted, he doesn't reach 200hp till about 5200rpm. compare to a .48 exhaust side and it will make power sooner. then the 57 trim compressor side should support your higher revving without exceeding its efficiency.
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Old 02-27-2006, 05:23 PM   #6
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i figure with the cam a .63 would be a little better

i'm not too concernced with lag. i know full boost wont come till 5-5.5k anyway.

i'm really looking for how much more power a 57 trim will make over a 50 trim, and would it basically be worth it.
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Old 02-27-2006, 05:25 PM   #7
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just wondering but why do you want to push so much power on PUMP GAS?
i think you're crazy
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: 50 trim vs 57 trim, T3/T04E on D16 (spooncivic1)

What brand of T4oE are you looking at?

From the InnovativeTurbo.com website looking at both compressor maps for T4oE-50 and 57, the 50 trim by every measure is the better choice including efficiency and power potential. I refer to these maps http://www.innovativeturbo.com...0.jpg and
http://www.innovativeturbo.com...7.jpg

Different manufacturers may have different designs altering these maps.
Just curious,

Ross.
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: (igo4bmx)

Quote:
Originally Posted by igo4bmx
just wondering but why do you want to push so much power on PUMP GAS?
i think you're crazy
because i can. plus it will be tuned by oen of the best tuners i know, JDogg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot
What brand of T4oE are you looking at?

From the InnovativeTurbo.com website looking at both compressor maps for T4oE-50 and 57, the 50 trim by every measure is the better choice including efficiency and power potential. I refer to these maps http://www.innovativeturbo.com...0.jpg and
http://www.innovativeturbo.com...7.jpg

Different manufacturers may have different designs altering these maps.
Just curious,

Ross.
honestly, i have no clue how to read a compressor map, i'm still working on learning that

the turbo will be a garrett from westcoast-turbo
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: (igo4bmx)

Quote:
Originally Posted by igo4bmx
just wondering but why do you want to push so much power on PUMP GAS?
i think you're crazy
i agree.
i have heard from more the one reputable tuner ~ 300 uncorrected whp is about the limit for d series pump gas.

i currently run a t3t4e 57 trim, i am running a 48 turbine though (switching to a 63 soon)

i think the biggest difference between the 50 trim and 57 trim is the amount of tq.
you will make more with a 57 trim.

as far as spool time.
with my 48 turbine, and a 2.5 in DP, i see full spool ( ~ 26 psi guage) by 5300ish.
log manifold,
2.5 DP
stock head
stock cam.

hope this helps Click the image to open in full size.

PSI2HI-- is that 10 psi, full spool at 4800 ? what was the manifold/dp/cam setup.
tryin to figure out whether i will NEED a cam to keep the spool time i want Click the image to open in full size.
thanks.
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: (llewsirc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by llewsirc
i agree.
i have heard from more the one reputable tuner ~ 300 uncorrected whp is about the limit for d series pump gas.
i dont see why 300 is the limit on a d-series, especially with forged internals. i've seen 400 from a local guy with a build z6 on race gas. and there are plenty of people making 300whp (like yourself) with basic stuff and forged internals.

the only thing i see stopping 350whp is the head flow. which will be taken care of. with a good amount of flow from the head, a nice cam, and a manifold with a decent collector i cant see why 350whp on pump isnt achievable.

but even if i only see 300whp i will still be a very happpy camper Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:34 PM   #12
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i was referring to a stock head.
but with a reworked head, im sure more power on pump is doable.
i can get 100 octane at the pump, so im set on a semi-stock head Click the image to open in full size.

i agree though is plenty
most people dont realize hom much 300 whp is on the street.
even with gear based timing retard (via neptune) i was having trouble keeping traction on BFG drag radial's in 1st, 2nd and sometines 3rd (with my e cutout open) Click the image to open in full size.
i cant imagine another 50hp let alone the tq that comes with it.
but ill see it in a few months Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:34 PM   #13
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Default Re: (rainmanef)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainmanef
use the red word thats at the top right.
You sir are a JACKASS, if you dont have anything to say that is helpful to us at honda-tech then STFU. I'm sick of people just adding a post to your count by contributing nothing at all. By the Way , the SEARCH button isnt RED for all of us either. Did it also ever occur to you that the search function doesnt answer ALL the questions that he might possibly have based on HIS setup? Not trying to be a dick , but man, people like you **** me off Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:41 PM   #14
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^^^ you didnt help either Click the image to open in full size.

i agree with you though

http://www.SEARCH!!!!-tech.com Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 02-27-2006, 07:43 PM   #15
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Default Re: (llewsirc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by llewsirc
i was referring to a stock head.
but with a reworked head, im sure more power on pump is doable.
i can get 100 octane at the pump, so im set on a semi-stock head Click the image to open in full size.

i agree though is plenty
most people dont realize hom much 300 whp is on the street.
even with gear based timing retard (via neptune) i was having trouble keeping traction on BFG drag radial's in 1st, 2nd and sometines 3rd (with my e cutout open) Click the image to open in full size.
i cant imagine another 50hp let alone the tq that comes with it.
but ill see it in a few months Click the image to open in full size.
yeah, 300 on the street is alot, hopefully i can break that mark and make more but if not then i will still be very happy with 300. which doesnt seem to hard with the setup im doing, but im gonna see if i can take it a step further and make more power while keeping it strictly to 93oct. only.

i'll probably build the kit around the stock motor first and get a good tune to hopefully 220-230ish (maybe more) and build the block on the side.
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