Header Test Repost (RMF,SMSP,Hytech,ANR, DTR, DC)
03-03-2006, 06:42 AM
#51
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Re: (teggsr925)
you guys (SMSP/RMF) crack me up.
Dave, admit that randys header beat both of your headers in my header test.
RMF, admit that daves header beat yours on a 2.0l at DFE.
i think if you both do that, the end of the world should not be as far away as i thought, and hell will have frozen over.
But, for the last time, i will tell the HT community this:
THERE IS NO ONE HEADER BETTER THAN ANY OTHER If there was, wouldnt you think that EVERYONE would buy from that one company?
EVERY MOTOR IS DIFFERENT Depending on your setup will determine what header is best for you.
WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS some headers make lots of midrange power, some make lots of top. if your a drag racer, you want most of your power up top, a road racer may want the best "area under the curve". Figure out what your goals are
PRICE, AVAILABILITY, QUALITY, CUSTOMER SERVICE Things that should help you determine your purchase. Take into account if the header is mild steel, caoted , jet coated, ceramic coated, stainless steel, Taiwan cheap stainless steel, etc. Material used is a direct coorelation to longevity. Also, a header that is full stainless for $1000 vs a MILD STEEL header for $700 is something to take into account. A stainless header costs more money an it might perform better. also availability, find out how long ti takes to get your header. is it worth it to wait 2weeks, 3 months, 6 months, etc.
TALK TO THE MANUFACTURERS Do not hesitate to PICK UP THE PHONE and call them, or PM them on here if they are a user. They love to answer questions, and help you. The info they give may be one sided, so take it with a grain of salt, but most of these guys are honest and trustworthy and will help you out.
TESTS ARE GUIDELINES NOT ABSOLUTIONS Take EVERY dyno you see with a grain of salt. MOST of the test done on here are for SALES. they are to create hype to get you to purchase a certain product. Read through the bullshit, and make a decision on your own. Every test is subject to criticism. even this one.
In the end, its up to YOU, not what HT tells you. Make a decision that fits your needs . Using 1 test to make up your mind as to what header you buy, is not advised. gather info, it took me 4 months for me of doing HARD research before i selected a header for my engine.
good luck
Dave, admit that randys header beat both of your headers in my header test.
RMF, admit that daves header beat yours on a 2.0l at DFE.
i think if you both do that, the end of the world should not be as far away as i thought, and hell will have frozen over.
But, for the last time, i will tell the HT community this:
THERE IS NO ONE HEADER BETTER THAN ANY OTHER If there was, wouldnt you think that EVERYONE would buy from that one company?
EVERY MOTOR IS DIFFERENT Depending on your setup will determine what header is best for you.
WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS some headers make lots of midrange power, some make lots of top. if your a drag racer, you want most of your power up top, a road racer may want the best "area under the curve". Figure out what your goals are
PRICE, AVAILABILITY, QUALITY, CUSTOMER SERVICE Things that should help you determine your purchase. Take into account if the header is mild steel, caoted , jet coated, ceramic coated, stainless steel, Taiwan cheap stainless steel, etc. Material used is a direct coorelation to longevity. Also, a header that is full stainless for $1000 vs a MILD STEEL header for $700 is something to take into account. A stainless header costs more money an it might perform better. also availability, find out how long ti takes to get your header. is it worth it to wait 2weeks, 3 months, 6 months, etc.
TALK TO THE MANUFACTURERS Do not hesitate to PICK UP THE PHONE and call them, or PM them on here if they are a user. They love to answer questions, and help you. The info they give may be one sided, so take it with a grain of salt, but most of these guys are honest and trustworthy and will help you out.
TESTS ARE GUIDELINES NOT ABSOLUTIONS Take EVERY dyno you see with a grain of salt. MOST of the test done on here are for SALES. they are to create hype to get you to purchase a certain product. Read through the bullshit, and make a decision on your own. Every test is subject to criticism. even this one.
In the end, its up to YOU, not what HT tells you. Make a decision that fits your needs . Using 1 test to make up your mind as to what header you buy, is not advised. gather info, it took me 4 months for me of doing HARD research before i selected a header for my engine.
good luck
03-03-2006, 06:59 AM
#52
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Re: (VtecKiDD)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecKiDD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you guys (SMSP/RMF) crack me up</TD></TR></TABLE>
Both guys make headers that work. My experience has been that well designed headers will basically tie on a well tuned motor. The hp and torque lines will cross each other numerous times on the graph. One header will do better in a certain range, say 4,000-6,000 RPM. The other will do better from 6,000-8,000 RPM. Peak HP will be within a couple of HP. In this case, it comes down to which header you like better, or which header manufacturer you like better
Both guys make headers that work. My experience has been that well designed headers will basically tie on a well tuned motor. The hp and torque lines will cross each other numerous times on the graph. One header will do better in a certain range, say 4,000-6,000 RPM. The other will do better from 6,000-8,000 RPM. Peak HP will be within a couple of HP. In this case, it comes down to which header you like better, or which header manufacturer you like better
03-03-2006, 07:05 PM
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Re: Header Test Repost (RMF)
I would like to see these headers on a 1.8liter fully built up and a few hours of tuning on both headers (same engine) and see who comes out on top.... that will be a better comparison.
03-04-2006, 08:47 AM
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Re: (LsVtec92Hatch)
I should have a new RMF header to test on my 2.0l engine so we can see how it stacks up against my old RAGE header, and my Old RMF.
should be interesting
as far as a 1.8l motor goes, i like the RMF, but you cant say the SMSP 4-1 is far off, it was only .5whp. either of those 2 should do you right.
as for a built 1.8l test, its coming very soon
should be interesting
as far as a 1.8l motor goes, i like the RMF, but you cant say the SMSP 4-1 is far off, it was only .5whp. either of those 2 should do you right.
as for a built 1.8l test, its coming very soon
03-04-2006, 12:14 PM
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Re: (LsVtec92Hatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LsVtec92Hatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why would that be a perfect comparison? Because thats what youre building?</TD></TR></TABLE>
nope... just wanna see a built up motor and how the headers do with a better flowing head and fully tuned up....
nope... just wanna see a built up motor and how the headers do with a better flowing head and fully tuned up....
03-04-2006, 12:18 PM
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Re: (Mainstream Performance)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mainstream Performance »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
as far as a 1.8l motor goes, i like the RMF, but you cant say the SMSP 4-1 is far off, it was only .5whp. either of those 2 should do you right.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
and it actually made more torque than the RMF header did
as far as a 1.8l motor goes, i like the RMF, but you cant say the SMSP 4-1 is far off, it was only .5whp. either of those 2 should do you right.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
and it actually made more torque than the RMF header did
03-13-2006, 04:00 AM
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Re: (integlspwr2k)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by integlspwr2k »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyone know which header will fit AC in a 98 acura integra GSR?</TD></TR></TABLE>
SMSP, RMF, Hytech and others all make headers that will fit your car with AC.
Biggest bang for the buck, if you haven't done a lot of modifications, would probably be the JDM OEM 4-1 ITR header or the DC JDM 4-1 copy of it (if you can find one). This would mean having a good exhaust from the header-backwards, of course.
SMSP, RMF, Hytech and others all make headers that will fit your car with AC.
Biggest bang for the buck, if you haven't done a lot of modifications, would probably be the JDM OEM 4-1 ITR header or the DC JDM 4-1 copy of it (if you can find one). This would mean having a good exhaust from the header-backwards, of course.
03-13-2006, 11:16 AM
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Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
SMSP, RMF, Hytech and others all make headers that will fit your car with AC.
Biggest bang for the buck, if you haven't done a lot of modifications, would probably be the JDM OEM 4-1 ITR header or the DC JDM 4-1 copy of it (if you can find one). This would mean having a good exhaust from the header-backwards, of course.</TD></TR></TABLE>
any of the ones used in this test like the RMF or Hyptech Prodction (rage) will fit AC?
SMSP, RMF, Hytech and others all make headers that will fit your car with AC.
Biggest bang for the buck, if you haven't done a lot of modifications, would probably be the JDM OEM 4-1 ITR header or the DC JDM 4-1 copy of it (if you can find one). This would mean having a good exhaust from the header-backwards, of course.</TD></TR></TABLE>
any of the ones used in this test like the RMF or Hyptech Prodction (rage) will fit AC?
03-13-2006, 11:42 AM
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Re: (VtecKiDD)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecKiDD »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes</TD></TR></TABLE>
any model which exact?
any model which exact?
05-04-2006, 05:21 PM
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Re: (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
SMSP, RMF, Hytech and others all make headers that will fit your car with AC.
Biggest bang for the buck, if you haven't done a lot of modifications, would probably be the JDM OEM 4-1 ITR header or the DC JDM 4-1 copy of it (if you can find one). This would mean having a good exhaust from the header-backwards, of course.</TD></TR></TABLE>
unless you can find an edelbrock 4-2-1 b series (proflo) header and get a shop like prostreetimport to do the 2.5 collector mod. for the money, that will own the jdm header types. then again, i was lucky enough to find mine used for like 200-ish.
SMSP, RMF, Hytech and others all make headers that will fit your car with AC.
Biggest bang for the buck, if you haven't done a lot of modifications, would probably be the JDM OEM 4-1 ITR header or the DC JDM 4-1 copy of it (if you can find one). This would mean having a good exhaust from the header-backwards, of course.</TD></TR></TABLE>
unless you can find an edelbrock 4-2-1 b series (proflo) header and get a shop like prostreetimport to do the 2.5 collector mod. for the money, that will own the jdm header types. then again, i was lucky enough to find mine used for like 200-ish.
05-13-2006, 06:22 PM
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Re: Header Test Repost (SMSP)
just for clarification purposes again: is this considered by everyone here to be a properly tuned dyno for this header in this header test ?
Modified by Michael Delaney at 11:12 PM 5/13/2006
05-14-2006, 07:00 AM
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Re: Header Test Repost (RMF)
we didnt spend HOURS on the dyno tuning each header, we got a good baseline, an got them as close as possible, in the end, we made sure the IAT, OIL TEMP, COOLANT temp was the same for all runs, an we made sure the af ratios were consistent.
FYI, on ALOT fo the runs the DYNO wideband went weird, but we had a seperate wideband we were using that was kept constant, so dont take the A/F graphs for facts, some are some arent.
and Daves Graphs are scaled wrong
FYI, on ALOT fo the runs the DYNO wideband went weird, but we had a seperate wideband we were using that was kept constant, so dont take the A/F graphs for facts, some are some arent.
and Daves Graphs are scaled wrong
05-14-2006, 07:18 AM
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Re: (VtecKiDD)
hey thanks for taking time to do this test.
Any idea where I can get specs on these headers?
Primary pipe length,
collector length
collector extension etc...
Just started looking into replacing my beaten to hell stock header...
Thanks
Any idea where I can get specs on these headers?
Primary pipe length,
collector length
collector extension etc...
Just started looking into replacing my beaten to hell stock header...
Thanks
05-14-2006, 02:30 PM
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Re: Header Test Repost (RMF)
To be honest with you Randy, this is the first time I read this thread and I scrolled down it and saw this dyno and so I'm just asking about it.
It looks pretty shitty by any objective standard.
I have no stake in who "wins" in this dyno test (obviously you do) and I'm not out to make Mike C. look bad as a tester or tuner or to minimize the huge effort that he made to do this test.
But I think it's in everyone's best interest including your's and Mike's and the general public that the best conditions truly reflect the potential of all headers in an unbiased way.
It serves no-one to post suboptimal dynos for some and then Ok ones for others and then declare a winner. It's not responsible or ethical.
And if people are stupid enough to not realize that then they deserve to be misled by the biased data because they choose to not be scientific in their objective assessment of a test. I do research. We are interested in getting at the truth in my field because if you go with hype or a biased test result it can have tragic consequences affecting a lot of lives.
When you place commerce above truth, you get Enron.
Modified by Michael Delaney at 6:45 PM 5/14/2006
It looks pretty shitty by any objective standard.
I have no stake in who "wins" in this dyno test (obviously you do) and I'm not out to make Mike C. look bad as a tester or tuner or to minimize the huge effort that he made to do this test.
But I think it's in everyone's best interest including your's and Mike's and the general public that the best conditions truly reflect the potential of all headers in an unbiased way.
It serves no-one to post suboptimal dynos for some and then Ok ones for others and then declare a winner. It's not responsible or ethical.
And if people are stupid enough to not realize that then they deserve to be misled by the biased data because they choose to not be scientific in their objective assessment of a test. I do research. We are interested in getting at the truth in my field because if you go with hype or a biased test result it can have tragic consequences affecting a lot of lives.
When you place commerce above truth, you get Enron.
Modified by Michael Delaney at 6:45 PM 5/14/2006