superdupervtec

I could of sworn that cross drilled rotors are to remove rotating mass.

F1 cars use carbon brake pads and rotors.

Slotted rotors work.

My opinion.

Not saying some of you points are not valid but then what about this info

Why use drilled or slotted discs?
Drilling or slotting discs aids the disc in several ways:

The edges of the slots or holes continuously clean and refresh the pad surface as well as providing increased brake "bite". Additionally, they prevent gasses from collecting between the pad and disc interface.
The disc is lightened, thereby decreasing its rotational inertia.
Improved ventilation increases the disc's ability to shed heat, resulting in cooler operating temperatures


What are the advantages of drilled and slotted discs?
The main advantages of drilled and slotted discs are the same: increased brake "bite", and a continuous refreshing of the brake pad surface. Drilled discs have the additional advantage of being lighter and running cooler. However, there are certain pad materials that should not be used with a drilled disc



Modified by superdupervtec at 2:44 PM 11/17/2005

Slow EJ8

In for what looks to be a very good read when I get home.

transpar_nt

THANKYOU for posting this. Maybe all of the shittyass ricers on here will actually pay attention and stop pointing out the fact that they have CROSSDRILLED AND SLOTTED ROTORZZZ OMGWTFBBQ!!!1!!

Now if everyone would realize that their gsr brake swap they overpaid for is the same thing as the LS brakes, we'd be set

superdupervtec

here is a cool link for formula one brakes

http://www.sportnetwork.net/main/s107/st58167.htm

EJ7

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Redline96LX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">blanks are just the flat, cast iron rotors. I know brembo makes good ones, there pretty much the same as OEM but cheaper, cause you can get a set for under 100$ and the dealer will rape you on cost. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry for being a bit off topic, aren't brembo rotors bigger(diameter) than OEM, or is that what you meant by "pretty much"?
No offense if any is taken.

nocturnaldragon

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by superdupervtec &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I could of sworn that cross drilled rotors are to remove rotating mass.

F1 cars use carbon brake pads and rotors.

Slotted rotors work.

My opinion.

Not saying some of you points are not valid but then what about this info

Why use drilled or slotted discs?
Drilling or slotting discs aids the disc in several ways:

The edges of the slots or holes continuously clean and refresh the pad surface as well as providing increased brake "bite". Additionally, they prevent gasses from collecting between the pad and disc interface.
The disc is lightened, thereby decreasing its rotational inertia.
Improved ventilation increases the disc's ability to shed heat, resulting in cooler operating temperatures


What are the advantages of drilled and slotted discs?
The main advantages of drilled and slotted discs are the same: increased brake "bite", and a continuous refreshing of the brake pad surface. Drilled discs have the additional advantage of being lighter and running cooler. However, there are certain pad materials that should not be used with a drilled disc

Modified by superdupervtec at 2:44 PM 11/17/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have to agree with you on this, I have slotted and drilled rotors on all 4 wheels and I can say with complete certainty that it does stop better with those rotors on over the stock blank rotors.

Im not disagreeing with most of what the original poster said but for me the slotted and drilled brembo's are the better choice for the way I drive my car, which is fast with a lot of last second braking being done. Now for normal city driving with someone who doesn't beat on there car like I do the blanks might be better but from my experience from my driving habits I like mine better.

alwaysoverkill

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dewoine &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i watch jgtc racing all the time and a lot of there cars have slotted brakes ..guess sombody better let those name brand companies know that thats rice and they really dont work brembo cough: cough:</TD></TR></TABLE>

its too bad a JTCC car can acutally hit speeds where the braking takes more then a few seconds, a civic on the other hand is a civic not a JTCC rocket. If your civic could hit 250km/h and have to slow to 20km/h repeatedly, then maybe slotted would be for you. but since a civic does not or is not capable of those speeds and braking repeatedly, good pads and blank rotors with stainless lines (for firm pedal feel) will do more then the looks of slotted rotors.

its another look thing, they look good behind nice rims, but why not go for ultimate rice, 19" rims with slotted rotors, red calipers and slam the whole thing 3.5" so its racecar low, haha then use 127hp to push those 30lb 19's

Redline96LX

Original text modified to add information.

GoT HaTcH

good info. ive been using brembo blanks on both my cars

Kamin

remove rotating mass? you guys ever done the math on that?

lets say it removes half a pound from each rotor. great! you saved half a pound. now lets look at ALL of the rotating mass.

wheel, tire, brake rotor, axle, output shaft, countershaft, input shaft, clutch, flywheel, crankshaft, rod, piston, camshaft, water pump, alternator.

and thats if you are removing half a pound! i dobut its even that much. crossdrilling will do *NOTHING* for rotating mass.

ive been arguing this point for years, crossdrilled/slotted rotors are a waste of money and only for looks.

Kamin

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nocturnaldragon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have to agree with you on this, I have slotted and drilled rotors on all 4 wheels and I can say with complete certainty that it does stop better with those rotors on over the stock blank rotors.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

did you put new pads on at the same time?

most people who make this outrageous claim put new pads on at the same time. and i guarntee the pads made the difference. 99% of drivers will never heat up a rotor/pad enough to notice when a slotted/drilled rotor will become an issue. like its been said earlier. i road race. and am perfectly happy with blanks.

Silver-Shooter

my slotted rotors feel better than my blanks, maybe its just the fact that i rebled my system. meh... they look cool

Eyal 951

think of them as nothing more then pretty chease graders that will crack. BTW, all the porsches with cross drilled rotors go home with cracks after track days. On top of what the origional poster's reasons for cross drilled rotors initial use, they were developed to reduce rotaional mass (ON RACE CARS, where every bit mattered, but I garuntee they were not just cast iron with holes drilled in em )
slotted is useless really, aside from shortening your pad life, but they won;t crack as easily.
All the honda challenge guys use autozone blanks (as do I) they work just fine, and their cheap. (on the track, rotors are consumables, just like tires and pads.
At sema a couple weeks ago, there was an australian company with a inside venting that was different then the normal vein type. It had a lot more surface are. That rotor looked effective at cooling, but not worth the 150, when i can get em at auto zone for 20. Maybe if you were racing professionaly, the "kangaroo pattern" rotors would be nice.

omega_s14

hey redline......what is ur opinion on calipers ... 2 piston and 4 piston and so forth....?......but the reading i did on ur work is really good, i apreciate the info....

Redline96LX

My opinion on caliper piston numbers...

Hmm. Well on a civic, I would go with a single piston caliper because of the weight of the caliper. I see the spoon calipers are 4 piston, and lighter materia, but they are also a lot more expensive. They do work better.

More pistons may be better..but thats also relative.
Example.

Ok, well I'm on the FSAE team at my school. We build a Formula car (which is overkill for anything you'd need on a street Honda.) We have two piston front calipers, one on each side, but the rotor is very very thin, like 5mm. Its not vented, cause it doesnt need it, being an open vehicle. We are altering hub shape, and are going to possibly a 1 piston caliper. It will be a monoblock tho, meaning its solid (not floating) but will be thinner on one side (we use 10" rims, clearence issues, etc etc.). Well the solid piece caliper is more for stability. We can make this as powerful at a 4 piston caliper. Its about pressures. We will be changing master cylinders' sizes to compensate for the change in fluid required to press the pads to the rotor with the same force. Notice that the McLaren SLR, Ferrari F60, Carrera GT2 use muliple piston calipers. All the pistons are small though, but still recieve a lot of pressure, due to the need for the car to stop at 200+ mph. This is because the rotor is so big, they used a physically longer brake pad. One piston in the middle will not distribute as well, and could bend the brake pad when used a lot. Notive the NSX 2 pot calipers have different sizes. Its because they wanted more of the force toward that side of the brake pad because the rotor comes in from one side; they did this on purpose.

So its not always number of pistons thats gonna make you stop faster. Get a Legend GS caliper on a ITR bracket. Same pad, but the GS may press on it more evenly. Will the GS caliper press more on the same amount of pedal play? Well its got 2 smaller pistons, so it may take more or less fluid to do so. You want to get some modulation in the brake pedal. So for upgrading to a 4 pot over a 1 pot with the same pad, the amount of stopping before you lockup is due to the pad, and although the piston(s) can grab the pad better, on a vehicle with ABS, the 4 pot caliper with the same pressures applied to the pad may stop sooner, but not much, and on a non-ABS vehicle, the pressure difference where it locks up may be so small you can't notice.

I'm not saying 4 pot calipers are bad. I mean Spoon calipers on a ITR are lighter, and distribute the pressure more evenly, but its not like the stock calipers are weak. On a track, the stock single piston caliper may cause more uneven pad wear or rotor wear because its a floating caliper, and may "wobble" more. On a roadcar with normal braking, the rigidity of stock calipers is more than fine, but on a track car with super hard suspension, added vibrations, and severe heat to the brakes, the 4 pot calipers will most likely make the pads and rotors last longer, and be more resistant to fade because the pad contact is more even, thus will have a little better heat transfer to the rotor. It will make more of the pad touch (this amount is almost negligable on a regular street Integra.)

On our formula car, so long as the caliper is rigid "enough" it doenst matter how many pistons we have, but we have chosen a small brake rotor, and the pad is almost square, so a single piston will work, whereas if we chose a pad with say a 3:1 length to width ration, we'd probably go with a 3 piston on one side or possibly a 6 piston, but because there are 6, they would be small, and if they were large pistons, alter the master cylinder size or pedal stroke ratio.

To sum up, the Spoon 4 pot calipers are not worth it to me, and on the street, completely not necessary, however they are a little more effecient even for a little 2300lb street civic, and if someone gave me a set, I would definatly use them.


Am I being too technical??

derspi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nocturnaldragon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have slotted and drilled rotors on all 4 wheels and I can say with complete certainty that it does stop better with those rotors on over the stock blank rotors.</TD></TR></TABLE>

O RLY? How can you make such a claim without extensive testing and/or track time? You're either feeling a placebo or what Kamin mentioned - your "better" braking is a direct result of a more aggressive aftermarket pad. Anyone with just stock brakes can get much improved braking by switching over to a more aggressive pad. For a passenger vehicle, drilled rotors are for looks, nothing more.

civiccoupe94

http://thebrakeman.com/revolution check out this.. that looks pretty dangerous since theres not that much surface

nocturnaldragon

No because I had just replaced them a month ago, I know what your saying most people just think its better because they put something new on without really having a difference. I am basing this on stoping distances my car made I dont have exact figures but it did make an improvement for my particular application.

nocturnaldragon

hey you guys can say whatever you want, It helped my particular application. Im not saying its going to do the same for everyone here. My driving habbits probably have a lot to do with it also. IMO they were worth the extra money and I prefer them over stock. Once again its for my application.

JeffBro

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Archidictus &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I road race and I use Brembo Blanks . Freaking nice rotors for the cost. Never warped in all the abuse I've put through them.</TD></TR></TABLE>


If you want better braking just get new rotors, bigger stock calipers if you can, and high performance pads. This alone will help ALOT. I hate it when people compare there old worn out pads and rotors to a big brake kit. Well duaa you hardly had any metal and pad left to absorb all of that heat. On every car where I put brembo rotors and good aftermarket pads on I notice better braking every time.

derspi

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nocturnaldragon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey you guys can say whatever you want, It helped my particular application. Im not saying its going to do the same for everyone here. My driving habbits probably have a lot to do with it also. IMO they were worth the extra money and I prefer them over stock. Once again its for my application.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Okeley dokeley Mr. Schumacher on public roads. *cough* placebo *cough*

tominos

why do some factory production cars come with cross drilled rotors?

nocturnaldragon

haha thats your opinion and your welcome to it. I have to say this is the first time Im debating with someone on the topic that hasent resulted in people resorting to name calling. Props to you

Anyhow like I was saying before with the old rotors, it felt like when I would press on them expecially in a hard stopping situation or a panic stop the pads would just glide over the rotor and never grip. When I put the new rotors in after trying new pads and a new master cylinder it seemed to really boost the braking power. It had more bite and would lock the wheel up at whatever speed, (Within reason mind you not 60mph mind you, but 30ish seems right [estimate here its where I would first hit the brake])

Anyhow thats just my opinion and everyone is welcome to there, this is just my individual experiance on my car, driving the way I do.


95 Del Sol Si, 4 wheel factory disk, Non ABS, drive like I stole it.

nocturnaldragon

All motor cycles well harley davidson ones do anyhow as well.

Redline96LX

tominos, the reason for drilled rotors on stock cars (and bikes) is sheer aestetics.

Now someone explain why BICYCLES come with rotors with holes in them. Don't tell me its to reduce weight, cause its a thin aluminum rotor and there not even saving pounds, rather grams, and bike rotors dont even get hot, cause its a bike. The holes must remove 60% of the contact area! Its a BIKE! My bike didn't have these damn hydraulic disc brakes, my bike when I was a kid had a simple brake. Try to pedal backwards, the bike stopped. Forget handbrakes.

And conturnaldragon, I think the lack of name calling is due to the fact that I started this thread with a calm, and factual discussion, I hope this won't be namecalling.