vega_ROCKS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jedubz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What the hell is all this talk about Hondata? Hondata is a waste on near-stock motors, and even if they aren't near stock, you still wouldn't catch me spending that kind of money for something that can be done for free by progs like Uberdata, Crome, TurboEdit, etc. You will not see a gain of more than 5 hp EVER by switching to Hondata on a D-series with boltons....

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ok what is the cheapest of the 4 (HonData, Crome, Uberdata, TurboEdit) and which gives the best results on a near stock motor??

This could turn into a wholenother post in a few

doublethink

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VashTheStampede &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I know you don't want to hear it, but a B18A, or B18B may be your BEST option.

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cheap, lots of torque. good aftermarket support.

the win.

Shao Lin Wu Su

Hmmm....I don't want to start a fight here, but Hondata is by far a more complete and better product than any of those things you mentioned. It doesn't just do fuel maps and vtec engagement points, it isn't just a piggy back that fools your stock ecu anymore...it makes your stock ecu fully programmable, every function your stock ecu does, you can tweak with the s300. Throttle tip in, A/C cut-off, full throttle shifting, launch control, shift light control, full boost control using up to a 3 bar map sensor (you know, istead of hiding boost from the ECU, let it actually control and adjust for it, like a stock turbo ECU would), you can tell it what size injectors you are using, and it retains all of the stock ecu safety features...and adds more...less than $600 is not a bad investment when you basically get a fully programmable Honda ecu.

I may be biased because I bought it, but I also looked at everything else out there, and you know what? I happen to think it is money well spent. I am going for a mild JRSC setup up in the end, so I am now already set for it.

vega_ROCKS

see u on the dyno

We can go halfs

i'm bout to leave to go down there and get my oil changed and tune up and everything so i can get the best results

vega_ROCKS

Ok any numbers on 96 d16y8 on turbo. Just head one got 209hp after dyno running on stock internals 6 psi

???

StorminMatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shao Lin Wu Su &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, hmmmm....well I know that I also have VTEC engaged at 5400 rpm, I don't know what is was stock, but it was at least 1000 RPM lower, which decreased output dramatically...the smooth VTEC cruve is what really gave me my power on the top. Here is my Dyno:



Hope it works, never tried posting a picture on here before.

- Edit - Crap, anyone know a good free image host?

2nd Edit - Ok found photobucket.com Here's the Dyno:

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Okay. So let me get this straight. A motor that produces 125HP peak at the crank at ~6500RPM is now producing 140WHP at 7700RPM with nothing more than bolt-ons and Hondata. I don't believe it. Everything I see in that dyno points to a cam.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I really wouldn't be suprised if those where real numbers though. The D16 has a 90mm stroke, which is definately going to give you more torque than a 77.4mm storke (given that both are ~1600cc). The ZC doesn't have the head to flow past 6.5k like the b16 - that's why its 'less aggressive/smoother' and has the extra hump from 6.5k-8k.

BTW b18apwr - ever thought of what a t25 or small IHI would have done for your previous d16? It'd have instant spoolup, and drop off torque at 5k just like the non-vtec b-series heads do.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My A6 produced nowhere near as much torque as my B16A did. Honestly, the effect of stroke and rod ratio on torque is overrated. And the B16A has compression on its side. Just take a look at the above dyno. The torque output here is certainly nothing that puts a B16A to shame. In fact, your typical B16A produces MORE torque than this motor - in the low end as well as the higher RPMs.

b18apwr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shao Lin Wu Su &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hmmm....I don't want to start a fight here, but Hondata is by far a more complete and better product than any of those things you mentioned. It doesn't just do fuel maps and vtec engagement points, it isn't just a piggy back that fools your stock ecu anymore...it makes your stock ecu fully programmable, every function your stock ecu does, you can tweak with the s300. Throttle tip in, A/C cut-off, full throttle shifting, launch control, shift light control, full boost control using up to a 3 bar map sensor (you know, istead of hiding boost from the ECU, let it actually control and adjust for it, like a stock turbo ECU would), you can tell it what size injectors you are using, and it retains all of the stock ecu safety features...and adds more...less than $600 is not a bad investment when you basically get a fully programmable Honda ecu.</TD></TR></TABLE>


:YAWN: So does Crome, TurboEdit, and Uberdata. For a mere investement of - oh yeah, they're free. http://www.pgmfi.org

Shao Lin Wu Su

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18apwr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


:YAWN: So does Crome, TurboEdit, and Uberdata. For a mere investement of - oh yeah, they're free. http://www.pgmfi.org </TD></TR></TABLE>

You mean you can program your ECU in real time using a laptop while driving the car around a track with any/all of these programs? They come with USB adapters to hook up to your ECU too? I thought all of those programs required you to make load in a whole new program every time you wanted to change/tweak something...and thus couldn't do it while the car was running, and you had to bypass MAP sensors, trick the computer into seeing what you wanted it to see, etc...

Shao Lin Wu Su

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StorminMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Okay. So let me get this straight. A motor that produces 125HP peak at the crank at ~6500RPM is now producing 140WHP at 7700RPM with nothing more than bolt-ons and Hondata. I don't believe it. Everything I see in that dyno points to a cam.
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Sorry about the late reply, I just recently got the ZC tranny in my car now too...shorter gears, I like it! Though highway cruising is a little bit of a beotch...eventually I'll have to get an HF 5thgear in there...but I digress...I must of course confess that I do in fact have a Crower Cam in the engine. It's a '91 CRX Si with a 1994 ZC SOHC VTEC (Exact same motor as a z6) with a Crower Stage 2 cam, CAI, ported and polished '89 Si Intake manifold, Catback, and Pulleys. Add to that stage 2 ACT clutch and now a 1991 ZC tranny from hmotorsonline (Thanks guys!) with brand new (ha ha read remanufactured) '91 integra axles.

Time to begin the flaming...I know I totally forgot to mention the damn cam...my bad, I'm sorry. My only excuse is that I was really excited about my results, when I first posted, I had just gotten it dynoed...

StorminMatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Shao Lin Wu Su &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You mean you can program your ECU in real time using a laptop while driving the car around a track with any/all of these programs? They come with USB adapters to hook up to your ECU too? I thought all of those programs required you to make load in a whole new program every time you wanted to change/tweak something...and thus couldn't do it while the car was running, and you had to bypass MAP sensors, trick the computer into seeing what you wanted it to see, etc...</TD></TR></TABLE>

As far as I know, this is true if you use Crome or Uberdata. But I guess it is kind of a tradeoff. As they say, there is no such thing as a free lunch. You are basically paying for convenience by going Hondata vs DIY route.

gmptep1

i know you said no B-series, but for the kinda money your gonna spend on the rest of the ****, you should honestly think of an LS, hell even a B-16 would be better, close to the same tourque but you get a hell of a lot more horses and you don't have to do any engine managment for the moment, just drop in and enjoy.

vega_ROCKS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gmptep1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know you said no B-series, but for the kinda money your gonna spend on the rest of the ****, you should honestly think of an LS, hell even a B-16 would be better, close to the same tourque but you get a hell of a lot more horses and you don't have to do any engine managment for the moment, just drop in and enjoy.</TD></TR></TABLE>

but there is still the price of and locating
Motor $$$
Cable Tranny (which are cheap now a days and even harder to find in good condition) $$$$$
Axles $$
DX/SI Assembly hubs because my car was originaly a STD $$
Shift linkage $$
Putting the motor in $$
ECU $$

I mean If I had I someone just drop 3 g's on me for free then I would do it. I went ahead and got me some Airmass Header, CAI and pulley to settle my urges for now....but it wont last long.


Somebody give me a priceless of a total swap into a 88-91 Hatch
I'll compare to see the cost.

RACERX72

hey guys what about sohc zc vtec, sorry for stealing the thread but why isnt the sohc zc vtec an option. i think it has way better numbers than the z6

vega_ROCKS

Actually it has the same number give or take 5 horses. But it is the same as the z6 but it comes 1.5 (d15b). The ZC that comes 1.6 is the DOHC ZC non vtec.

vega_ROCKS

I may be wrong on that one too. If i remember some of the SOHC ZC says just ZC on it instead of d15b which i think it the non vtec.

The Lobster

d15b is 1.5 vtec. i dont see why you didnt just buy the d15b for about 600 shipped to your door....you can use your current tranny and axle and such....

vega_ROCKS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rexified &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">d15b is 1.5 vtec. i dont see why you didnt just buy the d15b for about 600 shipped to your door....you can use your current tranny and axle and such....</TD></TR></TABLE>

That would be pointless when i paid $500 for my z6 swap complete and both the d15b and the SOHC ZC and DOHC ZC are all almost rated at the same power. only main difference it torque and slight compretion

I might just save up for a K, if all else fails with z6

Shao Lin Wu Su

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RACERX72 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hey guys what about sohc zc vtec, sorry for stealing the thread but why isnt the sohc zc vtec an option. i think it has way better numbers than the z6</TD></TR></TABLE>

Ummm....yes, that's what I'm running, and SOHC ZC VTEC - 1.6 liter motor...yes it is 1.6 liters and yes it is a ZC motor, and yes, it is exactly the same as the z6. Rated at exactly the same horsepower. Why, do you ask? Because it had less miles on it by far than the equivalent USDM motor. I am running a USDM Hondatified p28 ECU on it. See previous posts in the thread.

Vega Box, you're right, the ZC SOHC VTEC motor just has ZC on the block, nothing else....but you're wrong in that it IS VTEC.

vega_ROCKS

D15B 1.5L SOHC (JDM)
D15B1 1.5L SOHC Dual point injection, cat.
D15B2 1.5L SOHC Dual point injection, cat.
D15B3 1.5L SOHC 1 carburetor
D15B4 1.5L SOHC 2 carburetors, cat.
D15B6 1.5L SOHC Multi point injection (8 valve)
D16A6 1.6L SOHC Multi point injection, cat.
D16A7 1.6L SOHC Multi point injection
D16Z2 1.6L SOHC Multi point injection, cat.
D16Z5 1.6L DOHC Multi point injection, cat
D16A8 1.6L DOHC Multi point injection, cat
D16A9 1.6L DOHC Multi point injection
ZC 1.6L DOHC Multi point injection (JDM)

Civic Hatchback
23L/U E-EF1 D13B ~81hp
25R/X/XT E-EF2 D15B ~90hp
Si E-EF3 ZC ~128hp
SiR/SiRII E-EF9 B16A ~158hp

There is a d15b with vtec and a d15b with out vtec correct??

goforbroke

I'll make it short and brief either:
b-series swap
d-turbo
nitrous

S9i1R

with crome you can RTP... you just need the moates ostrich also the burn 1 is a great burner.

RACERX72

yea shao i have the exact motor some people are weird i dunno i have a sohc vtec zc motor and it says Zc on the block. i mean there like 4 of my peeeps here in l.a. running those mottors and there great i love those *****.

The Lobster

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

got me some Airmass Header, CAI and pulley to settle my urges for now....but it wont last long.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i was refering to this if you got all that already you could of just got a d15b or a z6 for 500 as you said. Or even an HMT. that chart you have does not have all the correct data.

your missing SOHC zc and the D16A no numerical value the D16A is a 1.6 VTEC equilvent to the USDM z6.Notice no number at the end

and like the D16A which is VTEC there is a D15B W/ VTEC all the other one has numerical valves on it with no VTEC

vega_ROCKS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rexified &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

and like the D16A which is VTEC there is a D15B W/ VTEC all the other one has numerical valves on it with no VTEC</TD></TR></TABLE>

There is also a d15b non vtec