vega_ROCKS

Ok I have done as many searches on this as possible and have not found my answer. And worst of all I have to give up my secrets but I really need to know
Currently I'm running d16z6 in my 89 STD w. 2.25" pipping no headers or intake and it just not any fun anymore. (Don't want to go B series so dont suggest it)
I have been looking into two new toys for myself. One being HonData s300 setup and the other being a d16a8 (Euro Spec ZC w/ 10 more horses then the ZC :Fact: )
HonData cant be used in JDM ECU because of the shape of them so I have heard so I wil have to use a 88-91 teg Spec ECU for the a8.
Now my question is. Will this all be worth it in the end. Who has a a8 and has actual seen more response with the engine then a z6? Who has a HonData setup on the a8 or even ZC what numbers do you have?

vtec isnt all the great when you dont have torque ::Fact::
So I'm wondering should i proceed or just HonData my z6??

vega_ROCKS

bump for great question

31flavorscivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">bump for great question</TD></TR></TABLE>

By tuning with Hondata what are you hoping to accomplish? Hondata mainly rewrites/adds engine maps. I always thought Hondata was mainly for forced induction, and high rev/high boost applications. I really don't see what you could accomplish with it with a stock engine.

The d16a8 would net you about 15 horses. I don't think its worth swapping an engine for 15 horses. That's just me though.

Is Forced Induction an option for you?

Dancing is Forbidden

you can't use ANY obd-0 ECU with Hondata.

gutterslide

the D16A8s that keep showing up on ebay as 142hp, and whatever torque are bullshit. the A8 makes, at most, what a standard ZC makes. the A8s with the striped valve cover from Rovers make 120-130hp, max.(stock Rover exhaust,PP5 ecu). this is what keeps popping up on ebay. the people selling them are full of ****. they're not rare, they're not 142hp, and they're not from Japan. there is some talk of an Isuzu/Honda co-op car (like the Gemini and Rodeo) that came with a D16A8 in the Japanese market, but i've never seen any evidence of it. check out the D16A8 info i've put on http://www.fourthgenhatch.com under Technical&gt; How To&gt; ZC Swap.

good luck, whatever engine you decide on. if i had it to do again, and had the money, i would go B16 all the way. i think it would be a more practical way to spend money than trying to squeeze extra power out of a D-series.

vega_ROCKS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 31flavorscivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

By tuning with Hondata what are you hoping to accomplish? Hondata mainly rewrites/adds engine maps. I always thought Hondata was mainly for forced induction, and high rev/high boost applications. I really don't see what you could accomplish with it with a stock engine.

The d16a8 would net you about 15 horses. I don't think its worth swapping an engine for 15 horses. That's just me though.

Is Forced Induction an option for you? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Well with the HonData from what I have seen will increase my hp gains by at most 40 to the wheel when properly tuned. I say this because my mech. just did the setup on a z6 about a week ago. He also didnt believe to much in setup itself, but after dyno on the z6 CR-X with it, charts showed 146hp which is pretty impreseve to me atleast when you think about. Thats around b16 numbers at half the price.

Forced Induction was also a option but then again price. I'm trying to do number for half of the cost. Not saying that I dont have any money but turbo doesnt look as pretty on a z6 as it does on a b16. IMO

31flavorscivic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Well with the HonData from what I have seen will increase my hp gains by at most 40 to the wheel when properly tuned. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll believe that when I see it.

vega_ROCKS

well the guy had headers, exhaust, 2.25 piping and intake

anyone dyno a ZC/a8 lately??

StorminMatt

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">vtec isnt all the great when you dont have torque ::Fact::</TD></TR></TABLE>

Neither of these motors has any real torque advantage over the other. They are both 1.6 liters. And both produce stock flywheel torque around 105ft-lb peak. In fact, because of the VTEC, the D16Z6 probably actually has the BETTER torque curve of the two. And let's not forget that the aftermarket is SO much better for the Z6.

Now I may be a B-series person. But if I absolutely HAD to have a D-series, I would most definitely go Z6 over any other.

K20EF8

Both motors share the same block, 75 mm bore 90 mm stroke, they are essentially the same

Twilight

Sorry to say this. But go Dohc VTEC. Both VTEC and torque.

Dont know about your facts.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">d16a8 (Euro Spec ZC w/ 10 more horses then the ZC :Fact: )</TD></TR></TABLE>

But The Euro spec (D16A8) ZC has 130hp.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">vtec isnt all the great when you dont have torque ::Fact::
</TD></TR></TABLE>

And lets remember why VTEC is invented? What was the main idea again?

Dancing is Forbidden

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well with the HonData from what I have seen will increase my hp gains by at most 40 to the wheel when properly tuned. I say this because my mech. just did the setup on a z6 about a week ago. He also didnt believe to much in setup itself, but after dyno on the z6 CR-X with it, charts showed 146hp which is pretty impreseve to me atleast when you think about. Thats around b16 numbers at half the price.

Forced Induction was also a option but then again price. I'm trying to do number for half of the cost. Not saying that I dont have any money but turbo doesnt look as pretty on a z6 as it does on a b16. IMO</TD></TR></TABLE>I dont think so. There is no way a z6 is putting out 140's with bolt ons. Nope, its just not possible. You would need ZC pistons and a cam to get in the 140's. Hondata on a stock engine will make around 3-5 more hp over stock.

HiProfile

^^^ what he said

The ECU treatment on a STOCK motor won't have any magical gains. In the end, its still a d-series with regular cam profiles and &lt;10:1 CR. If you want more power, get P29 pistons, a zex cam, convert to OBD1, and get it tuned with crome (or hondata if you want). However, you'll never be as capible making max HP compaired to a b-series, since the d-series bore/stroke is a torque design rather than for high-rpm power.

As for the debate between dohc or vtec - get what's cheapest. The fact is that most USDM vtec motors you'll find have 100k-150k miles on them, while you'll find ZC's with 30k-50k on them from importers no problem. THAT is the major difference, along with slightly higher compression - not just having a second cam. Having two cams only comes in useful when you modify the motor enough where you may gain hp by playing with that timing. Otherwise VTEC *will* be capible of more power. The only way it couldn't is if the volumetric effeciency of the vtec head was much lower than a ZC head.

vega_ROCKS

damn i thought i was the mart guy

good stuff guys

VashTheStampede

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">damn i thought i was the mart guy

good stuff guys</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know you don't want to hear it, but a B18A, or B18B may be your BEST option.

Grand

if you wanna make any real power and stick to a decent budget your gonna have to go b series

vega_ROCKS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LG_R32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you wanna make any real power and stick to a decent budget your gonna have to go b series </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah thats what everyone keeps saying.

What is the most anyone has every squeezed out of a z6

Leon d15 is always an exception to the rule when it comes to how much power u can get out of a SOHC

crix351c

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well the guy had headers, exhaust, 2.25 piping and intake

anyone dyno a ZC/a8 lately??</TD></TR></TABLE>

210h 195t
hahahahahahah


at 8.5 psi

vega_ROCKS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by crix351c &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

210h 195t
hahahahahahah


at 8.5 psi </TD></TR></TABLE>

good stuff

ok N/A numbers cause I'm not ready for turbo yet

drSquish

This is DrSquish posting at work. I have a couple discrepencies I'd like to flaten out. I have seen Hondata OBD-0 Prepared ecus.

Another thing- Hondata can tune any car, stock or not by leaning out and in other words, optimize the engine's output. I can see a 2-3hp gain on a stock motor by leaning it out but 40hp! Something tells me I should of sold my B16 and bought a D16 with Hondata ages ago

vega_ROCKS

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">^^^ what he said

The ECU treatment on a STOCK motor won't have any magical gains. In the end, its still a d-series with regular cam profiles and &lt;10:1 CR. If you want more power, get P29 pistons, a zex cam, convert to OBD1, and get it tuned with crome (or hondata if you want)...

</TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by drSquish &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This is DrSquish posting at work. I have a couple discrepencies I'd like to flaten out. I have seen Hondata OBD-0 Prepared ecus...

</TD></TR></TABLE>

The z6 is a obd-1 so i'm already running obd-1.
Does being obd-1 make any differences in the hp gains.

And about the 40 hp gain on the cr-x z6. I wasnt personally there during the dyno so I didnt get a chance to get the sheet, nor was the car dynoed b4 the HonData setup.
Maybe whe need someone with HonData to step in a give us some fact, and also I'll ask my mech. to call the guy again so we can dyno his car again and find out.

VashTheStampede

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vega_box &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The z6 is a obd-1 so i'm already running obd-1.
Does being obd-1 make any differences in the hp gains.

And about the 40 hp gain on the cr-x z6. I wasnt personally there during the dyno so I didnt get a chance to get the sheet, nor was the car dynoed b4 the HonData setup.
Maybe whe need someone with HonData to step in a give us some fact, and also I'll ask my mech. to call the guy again so we can dyno his car again and find out.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your best bet is either a high-comp tuned D series, or a more streetable B. I know you want the sleeper thing, and you want it to go a different way, but you have got to see the B20, or B18 as an option.

If you want TQ, a built B20/VTEC is the way to go.

trooper0641

The only way to go with the D, is to boost it. Don't waste your money into N/A thinking you can make it as fast or faster than a b16. Because it just won't happend. You'll end up spending more money into the n/a D to be faster then the b16 in the long run.

lazyboy

imo i know you dont want to here it but b18a1, i found my complete swap for 600 minus the pr4 ecu so it was 630 all togather and you can find them anywhere at a junkyard with an integra

vega_ROCKS

I guess I should have read the HonData Info sheet too.
It was saying something about a guy with a stock b16A with HonData setup and it only got 5hp and 3.5t
So why does this system cost so much if it only increases by 5hp.?? I can get a intkae and headers and get better results