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Old 08-16-2005, 02:48 PM   #1
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Default d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage

i have everything in the car, all bolted in, i had to make motor mounts (rear and drivers side) and the starter won't engage the flywheel. i can hear it spinning but the teeth dont touch the flywheel - should i use a special starter?
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Old 08-16-2005, 05:29 PM   #2
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

what tranny do you have. what car is it in. and is it the first gen teg motor?
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (da6jdmteg)

its a d16a1 first gen integra motor bolted into a 94 civic coupe ex. the more i look at it, it looks like the motor holds the flywheel in a little more (farther away from the transmission) than the sohc motors. which is also causing problems with clutch engagement Click the image to open in full size. is there anyone that has done this before, or am i the first? i don't really think it holds it further away from the transmission, i think the block is longer and the motor ribbing extends farther away from the block than the sohcs. the driver's side axle looks like its about to pull out (or break) because the bearings in the axle are in the boot, and we noticed the tires were rubbing on the driver's side too. should i use the halfshaft that the integra used? i thought the axles would be the same size since i'm using the same transmission. the tranny is, by the way, a civic 5spd hydraulic.

so a list of all the problems:

distributor doesnt fit - made custom mounts to hold obd1 in place
drivers side motor mount seems to be too high, motor sits low on drivers side
clutch doesn't engage
starter doesn't engage
1 starter bolt and 1 transmission bolt dont line up.
the rear motor mount was far away from the transmission (motor is longer)
the side mounts were wedged up against the frame (motor is longer)


and thats it - now what?
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Old 08-16-2005, 06:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

Why did you swap such complicated and old motor when 92-95 D series go for next to nothing? Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:00 AM   #5
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (fast88std)

to see how hard it really was - plus i blew up all my other d series, so i figured "what the hell?" so nobody has any useful information, huh? i cant believe i'm the only ************ thats done this stupidass swap
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Old 08-17-2005, 08:24 AM   #6
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

i tried doing it. i took my d15b2 out of a 91 civic hatch.and swapped it into my first gen teg. it worked. (single cam teg thats jdm ha ha ha). but when it came to the d16a1 into my 91 hatch different story. like you said starter didnt engage. my motor sat very high on driverside.axles did work out with the teg axles and halfshaft. used a 91 crx si distributor. what i figured i would have to do was custom make a mount for the a1 tranny. that way the starter would work. and amount for the driverside. so no you aint the only one who done it. but with you havin a hydro tranny. i dont think you can get it done.
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Old 08-17-2005, 09:42 AM   #7
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

Quote:
Originally Posted by apexrift
to see how hard it really was - plus i blew up all my other d series, so i figured "what the hell?" so nobody has any useful information, huh? i cant believe i'm the only ************ thats done this stupidass swap
Yeah man I was gonna reply first to this when you first posted, but I got busy here at work.

You probably won't find any help about this swap because it is a backwards swap in that it's just too complicated and the "gains" are very minimal seeing as how they have 112hp and 118hp, and you have to rig so much to get it working in the first place.

I personally would never try that swap even if it was free and I was bored.
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Old 08-17-2005, 10:42 AM   #8
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

I was goin to put one in my 90 dx. then I got hte trans on and desided it wasn't worth the effort to make mounts. So now I'm goin tear it down and use the pistons in a Z6
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:54 PM   #9
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (Cvic90)

is the output shaft on the 88-91 civic transmissions longer than on 92-95 civic trannys? i don't really care if the starter doesn't engage, i just want the clutch to engage. i figure i can rig up a starter from some other car that goes out more than the civic one. or, i could weld on the starter where the splines are to extend it all custom-like, but i don't know if welds would hold up to that kind of abuse (starting a car) other than that, i went to the junkyard today and got the integra halfshaft, and re-made the driver's side motor mount which got the motor sitting correctly, but i don't think the hood will close now.

the oil pan is way out the bottom too, is this **** taller? if i cant get this motor to work then i cant get this car to work for a while - i would just go to the junker and get a d15 of some sort but i'm turboing whatever goes in there (seeing how the only exhaust manifold i have is a turbo manifold :D) i figured "this is a d16, it'll hold up longer, and i can get pistons and rods for it really cheap". so what is it about the motor that causes the starter and clutch not to engage? should i use a different crank? i don't think that would do it because one time i ripped apart a d16a1 to rebuild a d16y7 and the crank, rods, and flywheel fit onto the y7 and it started just fine then... if anything should i rip the transmission apart and take the guts from the A1 tranny and put them in the Z6 tranny? if its just the ribbing on the motor that extends further toward the tranny, then i could grind that **** down until its shorter.

OH, another thing, when i take the dust cover off the motor on the bottom that hides the flywheel, the teeth on the flywheel are RIGHT on the edge of the transmission. are they supposed to be towards the transmission further? when i look into the transmission through the dust cover hole, it looks like there's some reinforcement on the transmission casing that is REALLY close to the flywheel - it looks like its where it should be. PLUS the A1 was originally an automatic, so FUCK!! FUCK FUCK FUCK. this is a giant pain in my ***.
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Old 08-17-2005, 01:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

oh, i still have the d16y7, but the oil pan is smashed to FUCK against the oil pickup, and the drivers side motor mount holes are stripped. - great. otherwise i would just rebuild it. and the 3 d15s i have have massive holes in the block. i'm going to try to find a digital camera so i can post some pics of what the hell is going on.
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:03 PM   #11
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

Honestly your best bet is to try and find any other D-Series from the 88-up Civic man. I'm sure that's the last thing you want to hear, but it will go in OE quality/fitment unlike the D16A1.
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Old 08-17-2005, 02:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (B18C5-EH2)

well son of a bitch. i just read the casting numbers on the engine and its pg6 - thats 86-87 - but it has a black valve cover. do you think that would have anything to do with it? i KNOW this swap has been done before in a second generation crx by whoever made quickhonda.net but they don't say anything about starter or clutch problems, they bought it thinking it was a zc and had to make motor mounts and everything like i did... DAMNIT. does anybody know if the 86-87 and 88-89 BLOCKS were different. (i know the head, distributor, and IM were) and besides the fact that they say pg6 instead of p29 on the pistons and rods and crank. is the block physically different to where it would be causing these problems? because i have a p29 block, but i'd have to swap all the internals, head, EVERYTHING from this motor onto the p29 block. or i could drill out the head bolt holes in the A1 head and bolt it up to the Y7 - its about 1/4" off on the top left head bolt, everything else lines up the same according to the headgasket...
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Old 08-17-2005, 03:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

i just went out and looked at my car, and remember how i said the axle was almost breaking because it was pulling out? well i looked at my passenger side wheel, and its sitting like a lowered car - from the back of the car, lowered cars tires look like this - / \ - not that drastic, but you get what i mean. on my car, its lowered and from the back the tires look like this - \ \ - what the hell? somehow the driver's side has POSITIVE camber on a lowered car - wtf...? somebody please explain wtf is going on - since the axle was popping out, that could be causing the clutch not to engage (since both axles arent all the way in) - this might be an easier fix than i thought. ill have some digital pictures of what i'm talking about tonight, i have to go get my girlfriend and get batteries - ill be back on here
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

i'm switching wheel hub assemblies right now, i forgot that when i did this swap, i also changed my wheel hub to one from the junkyard because mine had 2 broken studs on it. im thinking this might be the reason the wheel sits funny, and the axle pops out. i don't remember if the car i got it off of was in an accident or not. i'll just be switching my lugs out with the ones from the other hub, and put my old one back on.
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Old 08-18-2005, 03:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

well the old wheel hub works - it pushed the axle all the way back in, so the clutch engages now, and the wheel sits the way it should. the only problems holding me back now are the distributor and the starter. in order to start it, i'm going to have to have one of my friends coast the car down the street and pop the clutch while i sit on the hood and **** with the distributor until it starts, and then put it in neutral really quick and let it idle down the street while i get the timing on, and then build custom brackets to hold the distributor on - is there any way to possibly use the distributor that's originally for the motor? i don't know how i would wire that up since its obdo and i have an obd1 computer, and there's 16 teeth in the obd0 distributor, and 24 in the obd1. i don't think it would work like that, but possibly if i swap the guts of the obd1 into the obd0 dizzy body, i could somehow rig it to work...?
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Old 08-19-2005, 12:50 AM   #16
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

well, i got the car running with the d16a1 in it :D - the only problem now is the starter. i ended up using a d15b7 distributor and drilled out the top ear on the distributor and put a bolt in it. its the only one holding it on, but its pretty solid and it doesnt leak, so eh... it pulls pretty ******* hard, so far i've taken it to 14psi, and i've only had it running for about 6 hours Click the image to open in full size.. it doesnt leak or nothing, its straight. what do you guys suggest about the starter? that's the only problem i'm faced with now. i just roll-start it to get it to go right now - what a pain in the ***, man. i'm going to try a d16a1 starter before i get crazy with grinding down the starter or something to make the shaft go further into the bellhousing so it touches the flywheel. and my clutch kind of slips - sometimes i'll hit 14psi and the clutch will just slip, and other times it'll break the tires loose - its damn cool, in first gear i don't catch traction, the second i press all the way down on the gas it just roasts the tires in first and second. and if i burn them into third, the tires won't stop roasting, but if i shift normally, then it just PULLS. 14psi is insane - how much horsepower can this motor handle? it's got some bigger rods and uberdata tuning and a 2 bar map and 450s, but thats it
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Old 08-19-2005, 08:39 AM   #17
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

no ideas on starters, eh...? and am i now the first person to SUCCESSFULLY swap this motor in? maybe i should do pictures - i have the digi cam now but no batteries, so the second i get paid ill buy batteries and take some pics of this bad boy :D - peace
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Old 08-25-2005, 11:30 AM   #18
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

i'm still screwed on the starter - any ideas?..... BUMP
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Old 08-25-2005, 12:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

subscribing, i would REALLY love to see pics of this freak ***, stupid as ****, probably realy fast back asswards hybrid. POST PICS NOW!!!


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Old 08-25-2005, 02:24 PM   #20
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (I Have an STD)

how the hell do i post pics? i have some pics of when i was building the motor, i'll have to get some of it in :D
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Old 08-25-2005, 02:43 PM   #21
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

Here come the pictures :D - these are pictures i took back when i was building the motor...

The back of my 94 Coupe EX
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg

The Front of my CIVNAC
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg

The chunk i had to take out of my transmission to get it to mount up to the d16a1 - the thermostat housing doesnt clear unless you do this
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg

The back of the d16a1 block with the oil feed line installed - ready for turbo :D
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg

The front of the d16a1 with no valve cover and no clutch - after i put the Eagle rods in. i never bothered to clean the bastard :D
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg

Kind of hard to see, but its the driver's side motor mount i made - i took the front mount off the block and welded it to the polyurethane motor mount deal and it bolts up - i'll get more pics of it in when i get more batteries (this digi cam sucks)
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg

The map sensor out of an obd0 civic plugs and works with the obd1 ecu, i just had to fine a vacuum source :D (the intake manifold and throttle body are different on obd0 and obd1)
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg

Gauges
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg

Really shitty pictures of the turbo
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg

Piles of motors :D
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....x.jpg


Modified by apexrift at 4:05 PM 8/25/2005
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Old 08-25-2005, 02:53 PM   #22
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

It spins and does not engage? Are you using your stock starter? If not then I would say it is your hold in winding in the starter not operating correctly. if your are using your stock starter, my guess is it does not reach and you will need to install shims for the armature to contact the flywheel.
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Old 08-25-2005, 03:07 PM   #23
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (JDM-97CX)

i'm using the stock starter, and the engine holds the flywheel out just as far as any other d16 - i tried using the integra starter and it doesn't work either. what i was thinking about doing is shaving down the transmission housing so it sits closer to the engine. but i still don't know exactly why it doesn't engage, be it not sticking far out enough horizontally, or sitting too far away from the flywheel vertically. i've tried just about everything except making the starter stick in farther (grinding down tranny) or having a custom starter made - what do you mean, install shims?

EDIT: also i tested both of the starters to make sure its extending when it spins, instead of just spinning. (you know how starters work)


Modified by apexrift at 5:14 PM 8/25/2005
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Old 08-26-2005, 01:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage (apexrift)

lets see some real pics of the motor ad turbo kit installed.


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Old 03-23-2011, 02:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: d16a1 swap - starter doesnt engage

anybody ever figure out how to get the starter to work? I did this swap on a 91 4-door with the stock trans, everything is done except the starter not engaging.... the motor mounts were hell but with a big prybar and a friend I got all 4 mounts in and bolted tight (used the driver side stock pedestal mount into the 1 hole on the D16A1 block instead of both holes) it sits straight and everything runs good... starter just spins.... lol..... I'm thinking of grinding the starter to see if I can make it go further into the hole lol....
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