Honda and Acura Technical Forums

B18CXr · 07-21-2005, 01:04 PM

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http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1330493

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Full Race Stage I GT (non-AC)
GT28RS (Disco) with T3 hot housing
B18C1
81.5mm
Stock sleeves and crank
Stock cams and gears
Stock TB
750cc
AEM EMS
Eagle rods
9:1 Mahle pistons
Toda valve springs
ATS Carbon Clutch
USDM P73 tranny
P73 head with very, very mid port job
Victory X intake manifold

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First off, I can't tell you how fun this setup is to drive. I've done lots of big "make boost after 6K" setups on Honda's and this, by far, is the most enjoyable to drive around town. Linear power with lots of area under the curve makes this package very nice to shoot around on the back roads as well as the interstate.

Most of the SR20DET crowd are in love with this turbo and I do agree, it makes the RWD platform more "driftoslaptackular", but this little guy on the B-series is

P.S.

Boost controller will be installed this weekend......I'll have ~18psi plots up next week

Anyway, long story short:

Previous setup was a completely stock OBDI USDM B18C1 with a 8psi JRSC, 440's, Kamikaze 3inch header and the AEM EMS. Put out 181 on the Mustang Dyno.

Then the mods at the top were installed and ran at 9.5psi putting out 265

Note: NOT DYNOJET numbers

See below:

Before and after overlaid (JRSC at ~8psi, Turbo at ~9.5psi)

Same data from above, but shown in a "deltas" format

And just for a different type of comparison:

"Jordo" 's old Full Race Stage III non-GT plot on a completely stock B18C5 at 9psi.

Same data from above just shown in "deltas" format
Note: the massive about of mid range the Disco gives over the t3/67

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Full-Race Geoff · 07-21-2005, 05:03 PM

i agree

this is a sick street setup, and the nissan guys love this turbo. response is under-rated on here. most of the guys who work at the shop (just not me and javier) have little turbos like these. lots and lots of fun

Def · 07-21-2005, 05:18 PM

Looks good - but you ever consider a GT28R? The smaller turbine tends to make it REALLY outspool the GT28RS. For comparison, on an SR20DET, a GT28R will make 16 psi by ~3400 RPM, while a GT28RS needs until about 4100 RPM to do that. Compressors are very similar, and the turbines are close enough with the nod slightly going to the RS for both. The RS only flows a bit more at higher pressure ratios anyway, which you wouldn't be using on a Honda.

FYI - most SR20DET guys don't like the GT28RS. It's too laggy for the power. The GT2871R with a 0.64 A/R turbine is the darling turbo for SRs now, since it'll spool up 400 RPM sooner than a GT28RS and make way more power up top(I've seen a bit over 370rwhp on it).

DRIVENRacing · 07-21-2005, 05:50 PM

nive info jack... this car is very well built... sounds amazing

lilbluehatch1 · 07-21-2005, 06:18 PM

this car is nasty i can say first hand.... quite fun to ride in also

Full-Race Geoff · 07-21-2005, 06:37 PM

one of the guys here had a 28R on his s13 and it just had no top end. it had plenty down low, but the lack of top end was disappointing. the 2871R as well as a few of the newer bushing turbo combos have proven to work a bit better.

HRTuning · 07-21-2005, 06:42 PM

Jack, I need to fly out there and just hang out for a few days.

You do all of these neat tests all the time. I had a similar experience tuning a stock GSR block with a GT2871RS turbo... It was amazing having full boost (and torque) down low. Keep the tests and comparisons coming.

1slowb16 · 07-21-2005, 07:16 PM

Jack, in your opinion, if I have a stock b16 in an '00 Si what would you recommend to setup a basic full race stage 1 GT kit and have it be reliable? I don't want to adjust boost-I just want to set it and leave it. Would I need to build the block, get a better intake manifold, etc? I don't want to go overboard I just want some good power for a reasonable price especially since I am not made of money and the kit alone is $3800. However, I am definitely getting a clutch to handle the added power. Would I need to add a 3" cat back exhaust with this kit? I live in Georgia so the drive wouldn't be much to get your help in person when it all comes together.

1slowb16 · 07-21-2005, 07:20 PM

Also I was thinking of getting an evo instead of turboing my car. Do you think that I would get more enjoyment out of this kit on my car than a stock evo? I am at a crossroads and I don't have much of a reference point to make a decision. The only turbo car I have ever driven was a friend's STi.

Full-Race Javier · 07-21-2005, 08:56 PM

ya...those tomato potatoes are fun. my first turbo'd beater had a GT28R on it...instant trq =

a1320addict · 07-21-2005, 10:10 PM

sick...cant wait to order mine hopefully in the upcoming two weeks. how would you feel about a gt2871r .62 a/r on a stock block b18c1? im looking for great midrange...while not just falling on my face on the top end...

BoostR41 · 07-21-2005, 10:16 PM

I know the GT28RS did 350whp and 340wtq on a SR motor at dontblinks shop so on a honda motor with a better flowing head it would do more I am sure

a1320addict · 07-21-2005, 10:37 PM

*crossing-fingers*

Def · 07-22-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full-Race Geoff

one of the guys here had a 28R on his s13 and it just had no top end. it had plenty down low, but the lack of top end was disappointing. the 2871R as well as a few of the newer bushing turbo combos have proven to work a bit better.

The 28RS is the same way since the compressor has almost the same flow capacity as the 28R wheel.

The reason why the 28RS keeps climbing on a smaller displacement Honda is the higher flowing head, bigger cam and low pressure ratio. On an SR the engine wants to make the power in the midrange, so you run more pressure to make the power. Ends up with a relatively weak topend. Takes something with a much bigger compressor wheel(like a 2871R) to keep the power up on top.

Anyway, my point was it's worth a try if you wanted really quick spool and wouldn't think it's the end of the world if your power peaked somewhere other than redline. I think a GT28R would work especially well on a B16A since it'd need more help spooling a turbo and it'd be efficient all the way to redline.

turbotommy · 07-22-2005, 06:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full-Race Javier

ya...those tomato potatoes are fun. my first turbo'd beater had a GT28R on it...instant trq =

my first turbo beater had a gt28r too! wait a minute....

nice to see the little guys can still push some power on 1.8's.

1slowb16 · 07-22-2005, 09:29 AM

I appreciate the help over the phone Jack! I will be contacting you soon to get full race equipped...

JDogg · 07-22-2005, 09:42 AM

i havent been impressed with the even gt28rs's top end. turbine chokes it up pretty good on the top end, i couldnt immagine at normal gt28r. all that said, we did make 375hp wiht this turbo on a 84mm b16

mrlegoman · 07-25-2005, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B18CXr

Previous setup was a completely stock OBDI USDM B18C1 with a 8psi JRSC, 440's, Kamikaze 3inch header and the AEM EMS. Put out 181 on the Mustang Dyno.

Wow, what a ghey setup.

He should sell all that crap.

Modified by mrlegoman at 3:09 PM 7/26/2005

done · 07-25-2005, 07:30 PM

thats a really nice powerband..

btw, my dyno i had a quarter size whole in my charge pipe, so that isnt a true comparision.

what is the difference in gt28r, gt28rs, gt2871r

o-man · 07-27-2005, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrlegoman

Wow, what a ghey setup.

He should sell all that crap.

Modified by mrlegoman at 3:09 PM 7/26/2005

ghey setup for a ghey guy

. I'll give $1 for the whole thing!

mrlegoman · 07-27-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o-man

ghey setup for a ghey guy

. I'll give $1 for the whole thing!

Your almost funny. Sure I'll sell it to you for a 1$, shipping will be about 40$ and handling will run around 1000$.

B18CXr · 08-04-2008, 07:59 PM

UPmotherphuckingdate!

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2358863

mrlegoman · 08-04-2008, 08:06 PM

BTW: Check the old plots. Did you mark any mileage on them?

07-21-2005, 05:03 PM	#2
Full-Race Geoff Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: FULL RACE, AZ, USA Posts: 4,482	Re: Full Race B-series GT Stage I (B18CXr) i agree this is a sick street setup, and the nissan guys love this turbo. response is under-rated on here. most of the guys who work at the shop (just not me and javier) have little turbos like these. lots and lots of fun __________________ Full-Race Motorsports Facebook \| Twitter \| YouTube

07-21-2005, 05:18 PM	#3
Def New User Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 1,259	Re: Full Race B-series GT Stage I (B18CXr) Looks good - but you ever consider a GT28R? The smaller turbine tends to make it REALLY outspool the GT28RS. For comparison, on an SR20DET, a GT28R will make 16 psi by ~3400 RPM, while a GT28RS needs until about 4100 RPM to do that. Compressors are very similar, and the turbines are close enough with the nod slightly going to the RS for both. The RS only flows a bit more at higher pressure ratios anyway, which you wouldn't be using on a Honda. FYI - most SR20DET guys don't like the GT28RS. It's too laggy for the power. The GT2871R with a 0.64 A/R turbine is the darling turbo for SRs now, since it'll spool up 400 RPM sooner than a GT28RS and make way more power up top(I've seen a bit over 370rwhp on it). __________________ '98 BMW ///M3 Sedan - Bavarian Beater '92 S13 240SX - SR20DET @ 18 psi

07-21-2005, 05:50 PM	#4
DRIVENRacing Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Charlotte, NC, USA Posts: 1,204	nive info jack... this car is very well built... sounds amazing __________________ Intense Motorsports 704 537-0054 Dyno Tuning and Performance Specialists

07-21-2005, 06:18 PM	#5
lilbluehatch1 Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 165	Re: (adSPEED) this car is nasty i can say first hand.... quite fun to ride in also

07-21-2005, 06:37 PM	#6
Full-Race Geoff Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: FULL RACE, AZ, USA Posts: 4,482	Re: Full Race B-series GT Stage I (Def) one of the guys here had a 28R on his s13 and it just had no top end. it had plenty down low, but the lack of top end was disappointing. the 2871R as well as a few of the newer bushing turbo combos have proven to work a bit better. __________________ Full-Race Motorsports Facebook \| Twitter \| YouTube

07-21-2005, 06:42 PM	#7
HRTuning Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA Posts: 1,926	Re: Full Race B-series GT Stage I (Full-Race Geoff) Jack, I need to fly out there and just hang out for a few days. You do all of these neat tests all the time. I had a similar experience tuning a stock GSR block with a GT2871RS turbo... It was amazing having full boost (and torque) down low. Keep the tests and comparisons coming. __________________ http://www.HRTuning.com Help Forum: http://www.HRTuning.com/forum Contact the NepTuner nearest you...http://www.HRTuning.com/pages/category/dealers

07-21-2005, 07:16 PM	#8
1slowb16 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Athens, Ga, 30605 Posts: 38	Jack, in your opinion, if I have a stock b16 in an '00 Si what would you recommend to setup a basic full race stage 1 GT kit and have it be reliable? I don't want to adjust boost-I just want to set it and leave it. Would I need to build the block, get a better intake manifold, etc? I don't want to go overboard I just want some good power for a reasonable price especially since I am not made of money and the kit alone is $3800. However, I am definitely getting a clutch to handle the added power. Would I need to add a 3" cat back exhaust with this kit? I live in Georgia so the drive wouldn't be much to get your help in person when it all comes together.

07-21-2005, 07:20 PM	#9
1slowb16 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Athens, Ga, 30605 Posts: 38	Also I was thinking of getting an evo instead of turboing my car. Do you think that I would get more enjoyment out of this kit on my car than a stock evo? I am at a crossroads and I don't have much of a reference point to make a decision. The only turbo car I have ever driven was a friend's STi.

07-21-2005, 08:56 PM	#10
Full-Race Javier Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot Hot Heat, AZ Posts: 1,148	Re: Full Race B-series GT Stage I (B18CXr) ya...those tomato potatoes are fun. my first turbo'd beater had a GT28R on it...instant trq = __________________ javier@full-race.com Full-Race Forum Full-Race Online Store Toll Free @ 866-FullRace

07-21-2005, 10:10 PM	#11
a1320addict H-T Basic Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 9,206	Re: Full Race B-series GT Stage I (Full-Race Javier) sick...cant wait to order mine hopefully in the upcoming two weeks. how would you feel about a gt2871r .62 a/r on a stock block b18c1? im looking for great midrange...while not just falling on my face on the top end... __________________ Speed Theory .Service.Retail.Wholesale. 1275 Bloomfield Avenue, Bldg 3, Unit 59 Fairfield, NJ 07004 973.227.2119

07-21-2005, 10:16 PM	#12
BoostR41 Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: southwest, PA, USA Posts: 2,366	Re: Full Race B-series GT Stage I (yehiknowrite) I know the GT28RS did 350whp and 340wtq on a SR motor at dontblinks shop so on a honda motor with a better flowing head it would do more I am sure __________________ 1998 Integra Type R #98-0041 SOLD 92 Civic SI- 556whp 399wtq 97 Prelude- 193whp 159wtq

07-21-2005, 10:37 PM	#13
a1320addict H-T Basic Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 9,206	Re: Full Race B-series GT Stage I (BoostR41) crossing-fingers __________________ Speed Theory .Service.Retail.Wholesale. 1275 Bloomfield Avenue, Bldg 3, Unit 59 Fairfield, NJ 07004 973.227.2119

07-22-2005, 09:29 AM	#16
1slowb16 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Athens, Ga, 30605 Posts: 38	I appreciate the help over the phone Jack! I will be contacting you soon to get full race equipped...

07-22-2005, 09:42 AM	#17
JDogg Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 4,733	Re: (1slowb16) i havent been impressed with the even gt28rs's top end. turbine chokes it up pretty good on the top end, i couldnt immagine at normal gt28r. all that said, we did make 375hp wiht this turbo on a 84mm b16 __________________ FS: DC/EG/Ek/h22 parts; Koni, Tein, JDM F20b, MBauto wheels, Cusco, Kuhmo, ITR parts FS: 1996 Integra GSR Sedan FS: RLZ Big Valve B16 head

07-25-2005, 07:30 PM	#19
done Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: usa Posts: 6,455	Re: Full Race B-series GT Stage I (Full-Race Geoff) thats a really nice powerband.. btw, my dyno i had a quarter size whole in my charge pipe, so that isnt a true comparision. what is the difference in gt28r, gt28rs, gt2871r __________________ \| Pneumatic VACUUM line Kit \|

08-04-2008, 07:59 PM	#22
B18CXr Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NC, USA Posts: 5,785	UPmotherphuckingdate UPmotherphuckingdate! http://honda-tech.com/zerothread/2358863

08-04-2008, 08:06 PM	#23
mrlegoman Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Lynchvegas, Va, USA Posts: 3,408	Re: UPmotherphuckingdate (B18CXr) BTW: Check the old plots. Did you mark any mileage on them? __________________ My Car Car dyno YouTube

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