k series swap in a 1992 Civic Dx / k20a k20 k24a swap info

[Nikos]

Being that I have tremendous respect for honda-tech and its members, I thought about making this post to address some K series swap issues since a lot has changed in the past years.

First and foremost.. Unlike b series swaps in EG, that were pretty much made for that chassis, you cannot really compare the amount of work and effort that has to go into doing a K series swap on your own. It's nowhere close as easy as a B series swap in a EG... not even close... Just trying to be honest about this. The amount of work required is not hard.. Just takes time. In the end in my opinion it is worth it but not only do you have something unique and powerful, but also the value of the car has increased unlike B series swapped cars where car+ swap doesn't equal the value of the 2 on there own.

If any of you have any questions concerning anything that has to do with K series power, swaps, cost, hints etc..., just post them and I will do my best to give you the best possible answer.

These days, I am putting a TSX k24a2 motor with a 5 speed tranny into my EG. Doing all the work on my own, I have learned a lot more than I thought I would learn.

Here;s a teaser pic









here's some good pics for the tranny mount that needs to be removed and how to install the new mount













dropping the motor



So you removed the B/D/H, cut the tranny mount, installed the new mounts, and dropped the motor.

What's next?

Well, before dropping the engine, most people relocated the radiator










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This is the shifter KIT I am using, from Karcepts.com

Shifter modifications (dimensions to cut will be provided in manual)








Simple template provided to help out










Grind the longer straight areas


Dremel the tight spots




Rear mount


Attaching rear mount




Attach cables to shifter, then attach shifter to mount w/ provided hardware


Cable cover plate


Attached cable cover plate


Damn, that's tight!






Like a glove...






Cable mounting bracket provided w/ rsx cables


You can pick up tapped holes in the bottom of the EG/DC crossmembers to mount the cable bracket (w/ EK crossmember, you will route cables above crossmember and not need anything but maybe a few tie wraps)


It's like Honda planned the cable routing this way.








Tons of clearance...


Finished product




Poor man's race car... Passenger gets the shaft... Pic was actually taken to show the centered shifter shaft (car is in neutral).


Red Bull anyone?



[/quote]

The shifter kit retails for $175

any questions, just ask.

Nikos

PS

[Ricey McRicerton]

I'd just like to publicly thank you for all of the K swap info you provide here Nikos.



Also, everybody check out his site. It's got an enormous amount of K swap info.

[fasthatchb18c1]

nice write up , I almost cant wait till my motor blows.

[george34]

how much do u think the whole swap cost? will the stock hood close? b/c i know on a crx the hood has to be cut out for it to close.how long do u think it took u all together? i could imagine how much fun it is to drive.

[litterbox]

I'll take advantage of your generosity Nikos:

1)As far as mating a b24a1 block to a k20r head, what is involved with building the block to make it as reliable as possible? You can't just slap the stock block to the head and expect it to be reliable can you?

2)As far as which mounts to choose goes, which ones do you recommend and why? Making the motor sit as far and as high as possible is a concern, so which mounts do that the best?

I love k20a.org

[Nikos]

Originally Posted by george34

how much do u think the whole swap cost? will the stock hood close? b/c i know on a crx the hood has to be cut out for it to close.how long do u think it took u all together? i could imagine how much fun it is to drive.

Yes the stock hood will close on a Eg/ek/dc with a k20a,k20a2. With a k24a, you just have to cut a small part of the hood.. Not a hole in the hood... just part of the hood structure.

How long is relative.. A shop can do it in 2-3 days, even sooner, it all depends how much time they have in a day. For an average person that has basic hand tools, and can work on the car 4-5 hours here... 1 hour there... mostly on weekends.. it will take a while... Like 2-4 weeks. In my case, it took me a good 3-4 days just to get the damn D out of the car.. just working from 11:00 Pm - 2:30 AM...

In my case, I have developed a stronger relationship with the car.. I mean while I work on it, I will go get some soap and clean some part of it that seems to be dirty or go off and do something else on the car. I am taking my time on it, because the TSX motor has almost 0 miles, so I want it to go in a "new" 1992 car. I cannot afford to do what Tom, did... Completelly tear down the car and go 100% OEM new parts on it. I am trying to make it look as clean though.

These are the exact wheels I bought for my car. Watanabe

Originally Posted by litterbox

1)As far as mating a b24a1 block to a k20r head, what is involved with building the block to make it as reliable as possible? You can't just slap the stock block to the head and expect it to be reliable can you?

Yes, you can if it is a crv block. It wil be reliable. Now you start revving to 8200 RPM every day.. and yes,,, it will not be. Eventually it will break.

If you can afford building the block, sure you can make some good power with the right compenents but here;s where the sickness starts...

Initially, you might want to replace the rods, since you have heard that K series rods are weak if pushed to the limit. What happens though, is since you have to take out the pistons to get to the rods, you might as well change the pistons and change compression. Well hell, since you are going to pistons and rods, you might want to sleeve the block too. Maybe have ERL performance, install some oil squirters as well...
Basically, what I am trying to say is that the numbers add up quickly. If you are good enough to do your own work with the manual and your tools, you can end up with a 250-300whp allmotor powered motor with not too much effort or porting...

But once labor from shops gets invloved and retail pricing, we are talking $$$$.

But yeah, if you don;t abuse the 99mm stroke you will be ok. Remember that these motors make the same power as a k20a at about 1500 RPM less... so there is no need for high rev, although we all know it is fun. Traction is also an issue. The thing I have heard some expers say is to go with a k24a if you want to drag race and a k20a2/k20a if you want to road race... that is a general rule... In my case, I am planning to do both with my TSX EG, but you never know... Once the car is running on k series motor, it is not the hardest thing to change the motor. I might later on keep the tsx head and mate it with a built k20a2 block etc...

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2)As far as which mounts to choose goes, which ones do you recommend and why? Making the motor sit as far and as high as possible is a concern, so which mounts do that the best?
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hasport , hybrid racing and avid sell mounts. I cannot endorse one or the other for the a few reasons. These companies are sponsoring my car and my website so that would be kind of lame for me to come in here and do just that.

But I can say, that people that are using these mounts are satisfied. Since all the companies offer a lifetime warranty, there is really nothing to worry about as far as quality. Mounts play an important role but I understand your concern about clearance... but the angle of the axles is also very important. So you don;t want the motor to be too high. Clearance also depends on suspension and wheels so it all depends. I have seen good and bad clearance pics. That;s because some people like their cars dropped and some others don;t.

For my car, I am using hasport mounts because Brian G supported my website from day one, when I only had 10 users... lol So I felt that is the least I could do to express my gratitude for his help. On a CRX that a local guy donated to me, I might go with hybrid racing mounts so it doesn;t really matter as long as installation is easy and the material is good and the final outcome is acceptable.

I am also using stainless steel brackets for my hasport mounts. Not because the mild steel ones are not good enough... Just because I like the look of stainless steel. These brackets were also made by karcepts.com



So, yeah,, just do your research and get what you like best. These companies that sell these mounts have a huge liability in their hands... They would never risk selling mounts that would break on you while you are driving or something. Mounts do break though.. H22a, b series, K series have broken in the past and they were replaced ASAP.
[/quote]

[litterbox]

Thanks alot Nikos. How streetable is the ride with these all steel mounts in place?

[Nikos]

Originally Posted by litterbox

Thanks alot Nikos. How streetable is the ride with these all steel mounts in place?

I think they are the same as far as vabriation etc...

Check this out. The owner of Karcepts that is using them in his EG, went autocrossing around your area

Look at the results. His name is Brian. k20a type R in EG &lt;-- Winner of that autocross

http://members.***.net/capital....html

[neutron91]

thats one bad **** ... i will prob never get one of those in my hatch until like 10 years down the road when they arent **** anymore

[litterbox]

Ya, I saw that on your site. I've been talking with him back and forth. I've also been talking with supafly and I saw his car at the last meet we had. Nice guys.

Do the mounts make the car any more bouncier when you hit bumps and stuff like that?

[b18cKoupe]

Coming from someone who did a jdm gsr swap about a year ago, when k was more expensive(still expensive), and not much was known, i really wish i had gone that route, the tourque is really impressive compared to the B engines as is the progress made in such a short time.

I'd also like to thank you for all the info you provide to everyone, much appreciated. And for those crazy cheap K24s, i wish you had 8 months sooner, LOL.
My next car will be a K powered honda of some sort, either another coupe or a crx, the B's are legendary but the K is definitely the future.

Also props to Hasport(i have their street mounts in my EG) for being one of the most Knowledgable and helpful companies I've dealt with, not to mention awesome quality

[unknown0001]

Thanks for the k-20 writeup Nikos...you've made my K-swap fear go away

[si_lee]

hows the oilpan clearance?

[k24a2turbosol]

NEXT THING YOU NEED TO DO IS TURBO THAT BITCH ...

LIKE MY DEL SOL DONE AND RUNNING AS OF 5/22:

EAST KOAST KUSTOMS ... DOT COM BITCHES

[DC4_MADMAN]

Originally Posted by k24a2turbosol

NEXT THING YOU NEED TO DO IS TURBO THAT BITCH ...

LIKE MY DEL SOL DONE AND RUNNING AS OF 5/22:

EAST KOAST KUSTOMS ... DOT COM BITCHES

Way to ruin a good an informative thread dipshit, looks to me like you are the bitch.

[ecahatch]

good info....is that Katman's EG gettin the K-transplant

[Nikos]

Originally Posted by ECAhatch

good info....is that Katman's EG gettin the K-transplant

shhhhhhhhhhhh

[.:Swig:.]

awesome dude

[hatch34]

nice write up

[Vero]

what kind of wiring is involved in this swap?

Also, can you get the stock cluster? MPH, RPM, Temp and the odometer/tripometer?

Is the same kind of fabrication involved on an 96-00 ek chasis? do you still have to cut the tranny mount and relocate the raditor?

This is an excellent post, with the price of B going up and K comming down, this opens up a lot of doors for people.

Thanks for the great service

[Deemeetree]

Vre Nikos, ise magas!

Good work man. Great information.

[Nikos]

Originally Posted by Vero

what kind of wiring is involved in this swap?

Also, can you get the stock cluster? MPH, RPM, Temp and the odometer/tripometer?

Is the same kind of fabrication involved on an 96-00 ek chasis? do you still have to cut the tranny mount and relocate the raditor?

ok, that is a very good question.

When you remove the engine harness from the B/d/h motor that is getting taken out, you might want to leave the chassis harness in there, so that the headlights and turn signals work. Everything else can be taken out.. pretty much

The K series engine harness will work on the kseries motors. The harness can be from a JDM k20a R (kind of short but will work), or a ep3 civic si or rsx type s. Another harness called the charging harness is needed to connect the battery with the motor and alternator, etc... These are pretty much the engine harnesses that are needed on the engine bay.

Back in the cabin, the engine harness that is coming from the bay will connect to the ecu. There, you need to buy or make a custom harness referred to as a pnp harness that will connect the ecu with the gauge cluster, temp sensors, o2 sensors etc... All functions of the stock cluster are restored. Some people without hondata get a cell light that cannot be avoided called a communication link code or something... but with K pro, all that can be disabled.

Hasport and hybrid racing sell these pnpo harnesses for $350. Now, if you were good enough and by having access to the manuals, you could do it yourself... Only problem with that is,, trial and error sucks... If you make your own harness and the car doesn;t start... there is real no place to look for a mistake since there are around 35 connection between 6 plugs... there are some people that have wired it on their own, but like I said, it is complicated for the average joe to do it on their own or source the plugs needed. From an rsx dash harness, you need the E plug and the c101 plug. I was able to locate the part number for the eplug but the price is like $2500 because you have to order 1200 pieces...lol...

The stock EG relays can still be used in combination with the K series relays the pnp harness has. It is very common , once someone is finished with the swap for the car not to start.. Sometimes, they don;t have enough grounds...bad starter solenoid, fuel pump wired wrong.... tranny ground is on painted part of the frame.... ecu is bad... and many more, hasport and hybrid racing help their customers out with.

Yes on the ek, you still have to cut the mount, same with all the dc2, ef and so on... There is a way to even keep the radiator in the stock position but you need this long *** radiator hoses, v8 cars use,, and they are expensive... There are a few cars that did not move the radiator..

like zerolift's swap

[WHTZ]

Very helpful write up.

[DJ_SaNdOz]

I also have to say "thank you" to you Nikos. I can't say that this swap will be financially feasible for me anytime soon, but I will be keeping my EG until it is something that I can afford. You have helped to pioneer this process which will ultimately help myself as well as countless others down the raod. a BIG to you bro.

[Nikos]

you are welcome... But really... I just collect information and distribute it... that is why I started the website.. to avoid B series haters

By the way, today was a good day for me.. I received my mail the new honda tuning issue.. You should check it out..

I am very happy, proud and pleased. This month issue of honda tuning magazine (July Issue) has an interesting article. Big thanks to fearless racing for the great pics and tech info.

Here's some sample scans... I am sure you understand why I cannot post the whole article...lol