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Old 10-16-2006, 04:18 PM   #26
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (GeeReg)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeReg
He is talking about apparent weightlessness that is felt from "falling around" the Earth, not weight in the technical sense. It looks like you need ~17,700 mph to orbit at 30,000 ft. 600 mph is 3.4% of that, so does that translate into 3.4% less apparent weight? I dunno...
Only if you're travelling in the right direction.

You'd weigh a lot less if the pilot decided he wanted to take you for a ride and he decided to dive.... lol

Well, not really.... but you would float around!
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:25 PM   #27
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (.Chris.)

weight is a function of your mass times the force of gracity acting down upon you. vector physics says that gravity is a force acting upon you in a negative y direction (straight down). this force's quantity is is a factor of your weight, times a universal constant for gravity for the given planet whose in your system, and your heigth above y=0, an arbitrary point, but in this case, sea level. therefore, your change in weight is brought upon by your increased distance.

im not sure if the fact that you are traveling in an x direction has any effect...but what do i know, im just a human bio major, and am barely holding onto 4.0 in my god damn calc based physics 1 class Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:30 PM   #28
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (fw190bvi)

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Originally Posted by fw190bvi
im not sure if the fact that you are traveling in an x direction has any effect...but what do i know, im just a human bio major, and am barely holding onto 4.0 in my god damn calc based physics 1 class Click the image to open in full size.
haha!
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:36 PM   #29
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (TedwardRoberts)

The plane would take off on the conveyor belt.
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (.Chris.)

holy misinformation. . . . Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.


gravity is not a result of anything spinning or accelerating or any concept even close to that. at all. Click the image to open in full size. gravity is simply a force of attraction between any and all objects which have mass. what gives us 'weight', per se, is the force of attraction between our mass and the earth's mass. period.

and orbital velocity = 17700mph @ 30k ft. . . . not even close. Click the image to open in full size. orbital velocity is dependent on a variety of factors including the mass of the orbiting object and its altitude. there is a positive relationship between the mass of the orbiting object and it's orbital velocity and a negative relationship between the object's altitude and it's orbital velocity. that is, the heavier something is, the faster is must travel at a given altitude to achieve orbit; and as altitude increases, the speed required to reach orbital velocity is reduced (when mass is constant, of course.)

an average commercial satellite orbits at about 17k mph at 150mi altitude. that said, the velocity required to orbit an airliner at 30k ft is vastly greater. the percentage of this speed that is accounted for by, say, 600 mph is negligible to the point of becoming useless to discuss. therefore, the change in an individual's measured weight, at that speed, at that altitude is useless to discuss.

get your facts straight people. Click the image to open in full size.

.

.

edit: i'm a dumbass. read on.


Modified by OBD1Kenobe at 11:42 PM 10/16/2006
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:41 PM   #31
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (fw190bvi)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBD1Kenobe
an average commercial satellite orbits at about 17k mph at 150mi altitude. that said, the velocity required to orbit an airliner at 30k ft is vastly greater. the percentage of this speed that is accounted for by, say, 600 mph is negligible to the point of becoming useless to discuss. therefore, the change in an individual's measured weight, at that speed, at that altitude is useless to discuss.
but your weight does change at 30k feet right? you are further from the planet itself while at that altitude...
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:44 PM   #32
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (s92dx)

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Originally Posted by s92dx
So let me throw some idiot math out here to make sure I get it. Completely simplified:

I weigh 180 pounds at sea level. 170 pounds on Mt. Everest due to distance from earth's main mass.

If the earth stopped spinning and I was at sea level I would weigh 190 due to lack of centrifugal force pulling against gravity.

If I'm in a plane I'll weigh less because of distance from the earth, but I can't put together how the speed will actually decrease from my weight....
This is completely false.

Also, centrifugal force is not a real force at all, its an apparent force.

The force of gravity is a centripital force.

Even if you were 30000ft above the surface, the gravitational difference would be less than .04% (.9967gs)

Land speed has little to do with the speed at which the earth rotates, so even a plane, the effects will be negligible
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Old 10-16-2006, 05:51 PM   #33
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (ucb)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucb
Even if you were 30000ft above the surface, the gravitational difference would be less than .04% (.9967gs)
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:16 PM   #34
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (OBD1Kenobe)

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Originally Posted by OBD1Kenobe

get your facts straight people. Click the image to open in full size.
Would you like to show me the calculation for orbital velocity at 30,000 feet? I'd be interested to see how it's no where near 17,700 miles per hour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBD1Kenobe

orbital velocity is dependent on a variety of factors including the mass of the orbiting object and its altitude.
You DO realize that the mass of the orbiting object is negligible when comparing a 6 x 10^24 kg planet and a 100 kg satellite?
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:19 PM   #35
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (ucb)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucb
Even if you were 30000ft above the surface, the gravitational difference would be less than .04% (.9967gs)
on that note, let's consider how much time slows down when you're flying in an airplane Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:21 PM   #36
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (ucb)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucb
The force of gravity is a centripetal force.
gravity is not, itself, a centripetal force. gravity only exerts a centripetal force on orbiting objects. this is why satellites do not fly off into the cosmos.

classic newtonian gravity is simply an attractive force between two objects with mass.

einsteinian gravity, which takes general relativity into account, does discuss gravity in terms of acceleration along curved paths, or 'orbits', but this is not the common concept of the term 'orbit'. rather, it refers to bodies' paths along curves in space-time, caused by massive objects. einstein proposed this description to solve the problem of the indistinguishablity of newtonian gravitation and forces exerted on bodies within inertial frames of reference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by shinobijesus
but your weight does change at 30k feet right? you are further from the planet itself while at that altitude...
yes. it does, although very slightly. if ucb's .04% figure is correct, that would be a change of around .07lbs for a 180lb person.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:24 PM   #37
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (ucb)

edit: ^^ took care of it
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:42 PM   #38
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (s92dx)

Here was one of my physics problems.

Are astronauts really wieghtless? Recalculate the weight of a human beign, assuming that they have the same mass as before (70 kg) but are now 300 miles (480 km) above the surface of the earth.

F=G M1M2 G(gravitational constant)= 6.675X10^-11 Nm^2 kg^-2
---------
r^2

F= (6.675x10^-11)(5.98x10^24)(70)
---------------------------------------
(6.37x10^6 + 480,000)^2

=595.48 N

Kg to lb = 2.20
1 N=.224809 lb

595.48x.224809=133.87 lbs or 60.85 lbs.

There you have it folks. 300 miles above the surface of the earth you weigh 60.85 kg. You weigh 9.15 kg less 300 miles above earths surface.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:42 PM   #39
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (OBD1Kenobe)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBD1Kenobe

and orbital velocity = 17700mph @ 30k ft. . . . not even close. Click the image to open in full size. orbital velocity is dependent on a variety of factors including the mass of the orbiting object and its altitude. there is a positive relationship between the mass of the orbiting object and it's orbital velocity and a negative relationship between the object's altitude and it's orbital velocity. that is, the heavier something is, the faster is must travel at a given altitude to achieve orbit; and as altitude increases, the speed required to reach orbital velocity is reduced (when mass is constant, of course.)
I'm not seeing how mass would make any difference in an object's orbital velocity...
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (Lsos)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsos
I'm not seeing how mass would make any difference in an object's orbital velocity...
my guess would be since gravity is stronger the heavier something is, so it has to travel faster to overcome the gravity...
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:51 PM   #41
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (.Nairb)

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Nairb
Here was one of my physics problems.

Are astronauts really wieghtless? Recalculate the weight of a human beign, assuming that they have the same mass as before (70 kg) but are now 300 miles (480 km) above the surface of the earth.

F=G M1M2 G(gravitational constant)= 6.675X10^-11 Nm^2 kg^-2
---------
r^2

F= (6.675x10^-11)(5.98x10^24)(70)
---------------------------------------
(6.37x10^6 + 480,000)^2

=595.48 N

Kg to lb = 2.20
1 N=.224809 lb

595.48x.224809=133.87 lbs or 60.85 lbs.

There you have it folks. 300 miles above the surface of the earth you weigh 60.85 kg.
True. I guess I should have specified in my original question "apparent weight". I just learned that it's different than simply "weight". Apparent weight is what a scale would show you.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:52 PM   #42
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (s92dx)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lsos
I'm not seeing how mass would make any difference in an object's orbital velocity...
In the real world it doesn't. On paper it might.


I'm still waiting for orbital velocity at 30,000 feet, since I'm a dumbass and all....
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:53 PM   #43
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (s92dx)

Quote:
Originally Posted by s92dx
my guess would be since gravity is stronger the heavier something is, so it has to travel faster to overcome the gravity...
But acceleration due to gravity is the same no matter how heavy you are...

I guess the only way I can see it making a difference is if the orbiting body is a significant fraction of the mass of the orbited body...but even then I have trouble wrapping my mind around it.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:53 PM   #44
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (GeeReg)

There are 2 things that will affect your weight, moving at 600 mph.

The first is the fact that gravitational acceleration decreases with your distance from the earth's surface. On the surface of the earth (sea level) a = 9.8 m/s2 or 32.2 ft/s2.

The second thing that would affect your weight is the speed at which you are moving. The general theory (or special, can't remember) of relativity says that the closer to the speed of light you are moving, the more your mass approaches infinity. Weight is a function of mass and acceleration.

As for centrifugal acceleration and all that jazz, this shouldn't affect your weight, as weight uses acceleration in the y direction (elevation). Your weight laterally will change everytime your acceleration changes magnitude or direction.
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Old 10-16-2006, 06:55 PM   #45
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (texasnick)

jesus is weightless on an airplane, however aliens are 3x heavier on an airplane than standing on earth.
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Old 10-16-2006, 07:35 PM   #46
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (soap)

Quote:
Originally Posted by soap
jesus is weightless on an airplane, however aliens are 3x heavier on an airplane than standing on earth.
What about Batman's offspring?
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Old 10-16-2006, 07:39 PM   #47
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (GeeReg)

Quote:
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Would you like to show me the calculation for orbital velocity at 30,000 feet? I'd be interested to see how it's no where near 17,700 miles per hour.
you have my humble apologies. without looking at the the equation, your statement seemed counter-intuitive. the mass of the earth in the numerator, though, makes the difference between 150mi and ~6mi negligible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeReg
You DO realize that the mass of the orbiting object is negligible when comparing a 6 x 10^24 kg planet and a 100 kg satellite?
yes, i do. but it the difference is there. you're right though, for this discussion, it really doesn't matter. but in astronomical calculations can become very significant. for our purposes, we can disregard it.

.

btw: i never called you a dumbass. i guess i was moved to respond by ucb's comment that gravity is a result of the spin of the earth. for some reason, i called you out without checking the numbers. sorry man. Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10-16-2006, 07:52 PM   #48
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (OBD1Kenobe)

No problem and you have my respect for the apology. Click the image to open in full size. I'm a little testy since, as Lsos put it, my "earth rotation" thread got shot down LOL.

I was surprised it was so slow also so I had to triple check myself.
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Old 10-16-2006, 07:58 PM   #49
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Default Re: How much do you weigh on an airplane? (sh00rik)

Quote:
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What about Batman's offspring?
batman was a homosexual there for there is no offspring.

unless robin was actually a female hrmm.... Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 10-16-2006, 08:00 PM   #50
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