masospaghetti

I had a big oil leak somewhere behind the front timing cover that would drip off the front of the oil pan. I have no idea how old the timing belt is, so I decided to replace the timing belt and see what seals I needed to replace.

There's so much oil in there that I can't tell where it's coming from.

What seals should I replace while i'm in here? I definitely will replace the front main seal, and it looks like the front balancer shaft seal is pretty easy to get to.

It's a 93 Accord EX w/ 177,000 miles. Thanks!

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Probably best to de-grease everything and clean up the area.

Balance shaft seals, front main and rear main wouldn't be bad ones to do.

uDraft

You may need http://tasauto.com/Product/Detail.as...923&d=1642&p=3 and a new seal.
The balance shaft seal will actually walk out of the block, if this is the bad one, you'll be able to see it.

masospaghetti

Thanks for the replies.

Muffinman: I will degrease the area, but I can't run the engine now to see where the oil comes from, since it's pretty well disassembled at this point.

Is it common for a leak to occur at the rear balance shaft? I noticed it's not just a standard oil seal, like the front shaft.

uDraft: I can't see the picture you posted. Link is broken.

holmesnmanny

The rear balance gear will only come off if you pull the oil pump and you will need to drop the oil pan to do that but that might be best. I would pick up and replace an oil pump gasket set, front balance shaft seal, crank seal and cam seal. The rear gear seal will come with the oil pump gasket set. Theres a hole in the front gear shaft. You put a bar in it and hold it to take off the nut.

Might as well replace the water pump while your in there too.

masospaghetti

holesnmanny, thanks. I am replacing the water pump.

I thought I could remove the rear gear housing by just pulling those two bolts and the 1 nut off?

Edit: It looks like there's two little o-rings behind the oil pump - worth replacing or not?

masospaghetti

After looking through the replacement steps for the oil pump housing, it doesn't look like much extra work. I've gone this far, I might as well replace all of the seals I can get to in there --- assuming it can be done with the engine in the car.

holmesnmanny

I guess I worded that wrong. In order to get to the seals behind the rear balancer gear you need to pull the pump.

You may as well replace the oil pan gasket while you're at it if it's beat up. Just make sure to grease the inner lip of any aftermarket seal as they might tear if installed dry and driven dry on startup. Honda OEM seals always come pregreased so if you decide to get em from Honda don't worry about it. You just need to grease the inner lip. Don't be afraid to put a decent bit of grease it will not hurt anything. For the oil pan gasket, just make sure to clean any bit of honda bond or rtv left there and use brake cleaner to remove any and all oil so when you put the new gasket it won't leak. It might leak if there is a little bit of oil left, oil might leak past it as it's slippery. Also, you can put a lil bit of rtv on each bolt thread so they don't back out. You don't need to go nuts torquing down the oil pan bolts and nuts.

masospaghetti

If I am going to pull the oil pan, do I need to reattach the driver's side motor mount? Can the motor "hang" from the other mounts without damaging anything?

Obviously, I am supporting the engine right now with a floor jack under the oil pan, and will have to remove this.

Also, I removed the rear balance shaft gear bolt. Do I need to pull the entire balance shaft out of the engine or will the gear just come off by itself?

holmesnmanny

Yes, just let it hang. Also I hope you have a wooden block in between the jack and the oil pan to prevent damaging the oil pan.

The gear comes off. Then the oil pump. The shaft will stay.

masospaghetti

Yeah I have a 2x4 between the jack and the oil pan.

Thanks for the tips. I should make more progress tomorrow.

masospaghetti

I replaced the seals in the oil pump housing, along with new seals on the balance shafts and front main seal, and a new oil pan gasket. Put the new cam seal in.

The seals went in pretty easy - almost too easy. The front main I was able to press in with my thumbs.

It wasn't obvious to me what part number seals to get, so here is what I used (or will use):

Balance shaft seal retainer - DORMAN 917006
Seals behind timing cover - BECK/ARNLEY 0396351 (this includes a new dipstick o-ring, the front balance shaft seal, front main, and rear balance shaft gear housing seal)
Timing belt kit - DAYCO WP187K1AS

Note that some seals come in multiple kits, so you will have extras. I used the BECK/ARNLEY seals since these were Japan-made, while Dorman's are Chinese and Dayco's are Taiwanese. I only got the Dorman kit for the seal retainer, since mine didn't have it.

Everything taken apart (Part of the leak might have been from that oval shaped opening on the right - look at the staining)


Back together:




The hole circled here - should there be a bolt in there once the belts are tensioned and everything is ready to go back together? Mine didn't have a bolt there when I opened it up, and I noticed that motor in the salvage yard I saw today was also missing the bolt.

Lost Again

If I follow the pic correct, that bolt is used as a temp "holder". It temp holds the tensioner away from the belt as you are changing it. Once you get the new one(s) on, that bolt is removed, crank it turned three teeth on the cam pully, then you lock/torque the thru bolt on the tensioner.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/how-replace-timing-belt-timing-balancer-belt-water-pump-f22b1-1908944/ - in this write up, step 28 is where that bolt is inserted....step 38 it is removed.

masospaghetti

Thanks, that makes sense after reading through the instructions again.

It appears that the spring for the balance shaft tensioner is stretched, it applies almost no tension on the belt once its installed. I'm getting a new spring from Honda to see if this solves the issue.

Also, my timing cover has a hole in it where the belt had chafed through it. How important is it to completely seal the timing cover? Honda has a new one for about $60.

uDraft

This was the part I needed for my '94, but it looks like you already have this.

Lost Again

The cover should be fine - a pic would be nice so we can verify.

There should be a "grommet" around the tension bolt that "pokes" thru the cover. Without that the cover will "bow" and allow the serp belt to rub a hole/slit into it. So I'd get a new grommet or find an "e-clip" of the correct size and slip it on there once the cover is on.

masospaghetti

That's exactly what happened before, and my cover has a slit cut into it.

I went ahead and put it back together and so far, so good. The balance shaft belt has very little tension on it - I thought my spring was stretched out at first - but a new Honda spring was no different. I guess it doesn't need much tension since the balance shafts aren't loaded.

Lost Again

Again an easy "solution" is to go to the store and find an e-clip that is the right size - been too long since I did this on a 95 I had or I'd give the size - and slip the e-clip in the grove on the bolt, it will hold the center part of the cover in enough to keep it from getting worse.

holmesnmanny

OP, did you turn the crank bolt so it moves 3 teeth on the CAMshaft pulley after setting it to tdc like Lost_Again said ?

After doing that, you will loosen the adjusting bolt a half a turn, then immediately tighten it and the springs will tension the balance and timing belts automatically.

If you did it this way you don't have to worry about the tension as it will be correct.

masospaghetti

holmesnmanny, yes, that is what I did. Even at full travel, the balance belt spring doesn't have much tension on it.

But i've been driving it around and so far so good. I assume that the balance belt doesn't need to be super tight to work since the shafts aren't loaded, unlike the camshaft.