crazyhouse2011

Okay. My rear pads on my 94 integra LS were worn to ****. I had an extra set of pads and i decided to swap those in. Apparently they were for the driver side, when i was replacing the passenger side pads, but from my close examination, switching the right and left sides wouldn't affect anything.

So anyway, i replaced the pads, and with much cursing and sweat i managed to turn the big *** screw in the caliper. Put it back together, and now the wheel wont' turn. So i take it apart, tighten down the big *** screw until i can no longer force it any farther in, and put it back together. Now the wheel still won't turn. I dropped the car, and drove it forward and backwards, thinking maybe i need everything to settle in place. It didn't seem to help much. But i noticed if i pushed on the brake pedal all the way to the floor (master cylinder has a leak) a few times, it loosened up a bit.
1. What did i do wrong?
2. Do these brakes auto adjust the pads into the right spot?
3. Does the caliper automatically center the pads in position when it is used?
4. What do i need to do to fix this?

safedriver

iTrader: (1)

Did you take the cap off of the fluid reservoir, wrap a rag around it, (to catch any brake fluid that might be forced into/out of the reservoir) as you turned that big *** screw into the caliper?

TheRealTegger

Did you need to force the caliper back onto the pads?

If so, and if the piston is in fact all the way into the bore, then the pads are too thick. Did you leave the shims on the backs of the pads?

crazyhouse2011

idk what you mean by shims. And i didn't have to force it, per se, just make sure it was lined up properly, then it slid on with a grunt and not much fuss,

crazyhouse2011

I did not do that. However, I DID remove the brake fluid resevoir cap after finishing the job to alleviate any pressure..... If that does the same thing...

B serious

iTrader: (1)

There is a little peg on the brake pad with the squeak indicator.

That pad needs to go inboard. The peg needs to line up with the slots in the caliper piston.

Your e brake cable or your slide pins may also be stuck

crazyhouse2011

pics of said peg? I didn't have trouble figuring out which pad goes where, so that's not the issue. I think i will adjust down my e brake cable and whack on my slide pins a couple times and see if it changes

B serious

iTrader: (1)

There are usually 3 total pegs on the backing plate of the INBOARD pad (the pad with the squeak indicator). One of those pegs is in the center.

That peg needs to line up with the piston slot. In other words, one of the piston slots must be left vertical. The slots you use in order to turn the piston. The peg needs to sit in that vertical slot.

TheRealTegger

ANY effort is too much effort.

If the piston was truly all the way into the caliper, then the caliper should have dropped easily over the pads with obvious looseness.

The INNER pad is the one with the squeal tab and the little nubbin that engages the slot in the piston. The OUTER pad has a flat back. The piston needs to be rotated so that one of the slots lines up with the little nubbin.

The pads should be LOOSE on their mounts, so you should have needed zero effort to place them in position. The pins should have been very easy to rotate and push in and out, with finger pressure. If neither of these conditions obtains, then you have a problem that can cause the wheel to be hard to turn after the brakes are installed.

Also, if you had that much trouble turning the piston back in, then the piston is rusted and may be refusing to back into its bore as it should when you take your foot off the pedal. This will also cause the wheel to lock up or be very difficult to turn.

crazyhouse2011

bump

full Circling

The pistons that you had to force back into the caliper, have a very tight tolerance between the piston and caliper. Over time **** rusts inside the caliper, and those rust particles will wedge themselves between the piston and caliper, and seizing them up, especially if the calipers are old (94? stock parts? yea), and if the caliper piston is forced too far into the caliper, it will shed even more rust particles into the brake fluid that pushes the piston out towards the pad and rotor...

Try this. Open the bleeder screw on the caliper, and THEN try to move that piston back into the caliper. Some fluid may come out, **** it you'll bleed the system later. All the better if you have a piece of hose to put on the bleeder screw so fluid goes on the ground and not your brake pads and rotor. Put the hose in a pepsi bottle if you like the environment and ****. Once the pistons are in far enough, to make a wide enough gap to slide over the rotors, and letting the rotors move freely, top off your brake fluid (get a big bottle of dot 4 synthetic if you can find some).

Im not sure off the top of my head, but now you need to bleed all four brake calipers in a specific order. If anyone knows the order off the top of their head feel free to chime in. Crack the bleeder screws one by one after someone else pumps the brake pedal a few times, and then holds the pedal down for you, while you crack the bleeder screw on the caliper, let some fluid and air drain, and close the bleeder screw.

Do this over and over, while checking the brake fluid resovoir, and keep adding more fluid as it goes down, making sure it doesn't run out of fluid. Do this until you see the fluid color change, and no air bubbles come out with the fluid.

If all this fails, new rear calipers. If your teg is a 94 and they've never been replaced, hell if they've only been replaced once depending on where your mileage is at, get. new rear calipers, bleed the brake fluid from all four calipers in the right order (this is important to get the order right) and that will fix it, especially if you've already gotten new pads

TheRealTegger

That's not why pistons seize. They seize on account of piston-rust dragging on the square-cut rubber hydraulic seal. The rusty piston-surface is rough, and causes a lot of friction on the rubber seal.

egsleepercivic

I think what happens is when the piston is out for so long it rust as stated above, when you put the new pads in the piston is not out as far and the rust makes it get stuck out.

had this happen on my 93 si, ended up replacing the caliper at autozone I believe, mine still had the original pads from the previous first owner of the car when i changed them.

silvertaxasteg

That right there is why you always open up a bleeder screw before you push the piston back in. You always risk pushing that crap up into the brake lines (and in extreme cases the ABS system) where it'll just get pushed back down and cause issues. Don't take off the master cylinder cap, and be slow when pushing/twisting the caliper back in and all that dirty fluid will come out easy.

You want to flush the longest line to shortest - passenger rear, driver rear, passenger, the driver. I say this, but the ABS is on the passnger side, so that may change it around.

1. Did you read the service manual or even a Haynes manual?
2. Yes. It only takes a few pumps of the pedal to take up the slack.
3. Yes. The caliper slides on pins so the hydraulic pressure always focuses on the pad/rotor interface.
4. Did you take the e-brake off first? Did you make sure the retaining hardware was replaced with the new hardware and in the correct location? Did you make sure the little **** on the inboard pad mate in the groove of the piston? Did you lubricate the pins with brake caliper grease? They come right out of the caliper bracket. Did you make sure the piston was near flush with the caliper seal? Did you make sure the piston/seal/housing area was clear of dirt and grime to make sure nothing gets in there? Did you spin the piston clockwise?

TheRealTegger

That's right. Honda uses cheap steel on their pistons, and aftermarket is even worse. Toyota uses semi-stainless pistons and lithium-soap grease (with compatible rubbers!). Toyota pistons do NOT rust where it counts and their calipers do not seize. Why can't Honda do the same?

By necessity, it's screwed all the way back in, and the outboard rust then has to drag right over top of the rubber seal. Like this...




How easy should it be to turn the piston? This easy (links to a short WMV video on my website).

One day I need to upload this video to YouTube, so I can embed it into H-T messages...

TheRealTegger

Actually, you want to bleed by circuit. Honda uses a diagonal split, so the proper sequence (for left-hand-drive cars) is:
-- right-rear, left front,
then
-- left rear, right front.

The MC is on the left and the prop valve is on the right, but the lines go all over the place, so you can't use MC and prop positions as a guide to bleed sequence.

silvertaxasteg

Had to look at the Helms on this one. For 98+, it's FL, FR, RR, RL.

Interesting, the things we learn from the service manuals.

That caliper looks terrible. Did you clean it up real well or just replace it? Afraid to look at mine now.

TheRealTegger

Cleaned both of them up and replaced the pistons and the seals. I never rebuild just one side.

Finished unit:

cetcivic

Now that you have it off, you can paint it...spray or brush