mithious

So I've been into get tested for "aircare" (Canadian smog testing!) a few times and have failed both times...

But I've got headers. Somebody told me today that's why I failed... And just to swap for the stock exhaust manifold.

Would that work?

Other mistake I made was advancing the timing... I'll retard it a bit, just not sure how much. Thoughts there are appreciated as well.

EsotericImage

iTrader: (8)

All a header does is free up the restriction over factory cast units.

Does your car have any CEL's? O2 sensor(s) working?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

Header. One. Singular. You do not have multiple exhaust banks, and therefore do not have multiple headers.

That said, no, a header shouldn't make you fail air cert/aircare/smog/what-the-****-ever you want to call it. Did they give you a sheet? Post the sheet.

mithious

I stand corrected. Header. Singular.

2 different people seemed rather adamant about it today, and it makes no sense to me.

I posted the sheets in an earlier thread... But noone replied. Gimme a few minutes I'll get them up again.

My thoughts were over advanced timing, O2 sensor and cat.

No CEL.

mithious

This is the first time... Car had been sitting 3 years, I changed all the fluids, got a day permit, and took it in to get tested. I didn't drive it too vigorously, but I took it on the highway for about 5 minutes.



And this is the second time. After driving the car daily for about a month. I thought I was hot **** because I finally figured out how to use a timing gun. It looked to be at about 8 degrees... (halfway between top dead center and the red mark) I advanced it to the red mark. (16 degrees?) Now I realize that wasn't too bright. I also cleaned the IACV, and this time I drove it vigorously. I did end up having to sit idling for a while before I got tested, but not much longer than 5 minutes?

NotARaCist

iTrader: (1)

What speed do they take the reading?

Is your CEL on? Does it work? I'm no master at reading those stupid things, but if I remember correctly, I think you're running lean, or your cat has failed. When was the last time the cat and o2 sensor were replaced? When was your last full ignition tune-up?

Also, paging RonJ.

mithious

I don't know how new the cat or O2 sensor are. I know it was sitting for 3 years before I bought it 2 months ago...

They put it on a dyno looking thing, and then they drive it through a range following a computer screen guide, which ends up looking a lot like daily driving with some idling at lights.

(which reminds me, I can also jack up the pressure in the front tires, that should help a bit)

I put on new NGK plugs and wires when I got it, along with a new distributor cap...

It's burning about 1 liter of oil every 1000k... Maybe more? I haven't done a compression test yet.

I have read that the burning oil can burn out the O2 sensor?

It might be using a tiny bit of coolant but if so it's so little I can't really tell. But the reason I bring that up is it spews a fair amount of carbon from the tailpipe at start up. And I wonder if that is congruent with having coolant in the system? I know spewing black is also unburnt fuel, but this distinctly looks like carbon to me, it's dusty and pure black when you wipe it off the ground.

At work, I was putting a piece of cardboard under it to catch the bit of oil drip I've got going on (not much, probably main seal)... But then I realized I was spewing black carbon on the nice white driveway... lol, well, anyway, I park on the street now.

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

http://www.smogtips.com/failed-high-hydrocarbons-HC.cfm

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

air in your tires does not affect emissions, at all. c'mon, man...

mithious

Air in your tires doesn't effect you when you're on a dyno?

If they are underinflated the car has to work harder to perform the same test, and your readings go up.

Or am I missing something here?

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

The only situation I can see a header making you fail is if you had a D16Y7. Because of course, the OEM exhaust manifold has the cat built in. Removing it to install an aftermarket header means you have no cat. In that case, you would need to install a cat underneath like the D16Y8/D16Z6 design.

E-testing is provincial, not federal. So no, it isn't a "Canadian smog test" as you stated.

What province are you in? In Ontario, they give you a sheet with possible causes, depending on which reading you failed on. Who ever told you that your header was to blame is just plain wrong.

EDIT: Just looked it up. It is British Columbia. Don't they give you any information or recommendations after you fail?

mithious

Very helpful, thanks.

That reminds me, I also did a test for vacuum leaks as well, using throttle body cleaner...

andoxviii

iTrader: (1)

In theory, you are correct, sir.

EDIT: Now that I think about it more, I think they only care about a particular rev, not a particular speed. So no, probably doesn't matter

mithious

I gotta say, thanks everyone for all the replies. This helps me a LOT. After my last post weeks ago I was on my own lost in limbo... Didn't really know what to do next.

Yep, British Columbia. They do have some "tips", but they aren't very detailed. Let me in the same direction, "O2 sensor, cat, vacuum leaks, ignition timing... etc etc"

Thank you for answering the header question!! That makes total sense with the Y7 (I also have a 97 CX with a Y7)...

So again, that puts me back to square 1?

What CAN I do? Test the O2 sensor (I've seen a multimeter how to somewhere), test the cat (heat gun test? I've only sort of heard of)... test again for vacuum leaks... The only other things I could think of is plugged up injectors... Uh... Air flow...

How far should I retard the timing? I was reading that advanced or very retarded timing will cause higher readings.

shotoutacc0rd

Your car has a customized exhaust? Is there even a cat there?

mithious

Yep, has a cat. I haven't taken a good look at it however, I wonder if it's one of those high flow but possibly ineffective ones?

I will inspect it more thoroughly in the morning. Also brings up I haven't checked for exhaust leaks.....

I think I have a decent list of "to do's" now...

delsolintegra

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...7986&styleid=2

I would replace and calibrate the throttle position sensor (See link)

When they go bad you won't get a cel but the car will run like crap.

You can get it at Autozone for about $47, comes with mounting bolts and calibration instructions.

You'll need a simple voltmeter like from Harbor Freight and a couple of pins to probe the back of the TPS connector.

TomCat39

The hydrocarbons are high which can be from oil being burned.

On the 93, our air care puts it on a dyno roller and runs it through various load and rpm ranges to get a full reading of the cars emissions.

More than likely your Catalytic converter either needs a citric acid bath or replaced and it might get you passed air care.

The other thing that can temporarily reduce your emissions for the test is to do the "Guaranteed to pass" additive. Can be found at Canadian Tire. Follow the directions and it helps reduce the amount of oil being burned in the cylinders for a short time.

And of course if it's been burning oil for quite some time to where the Catalytic converter is no longer operating at peak efficiency then your O2 sensor is probably dirty too and should be replaced.

And lastly, if you sit in line waiting to get in to be tested after a good 20 minute drive, hold the rpm up in the 1500-2000 range to keep the cat hot, that way it doesn't get to cool off too much while they are setting up the car for the dyno run.

delsolintegra

when you change the TPS you have to remove the throttle body from the intake so you can dremel off the rivets that hold the TPS in place.
Rivets! The TPS is recommended to be recalibrated about every 8 years but if it's still riveted in it has not been recalibrated since day one (now 21 years).

When you remove the throttle body you will see how carboned up the throttle plate is. This could be the source of your bad emission readings!

The above link is a good walk thru on cleaning the whole intake system.

OptimisticWay

eghatch9295

iTrader: (1)

start at square 1. compression and leakdown test.

mithious

This is on my todo list, but I don't think it will effect my current plans. I suspect the compression is lacking and it's due for some rings. It's due for a whole rebuild, and that's where I get stuck because if I'm going to rebuild an engine I'd rather a B18. So, as much as I LOVE this car, it might just get sold to fund my new engine build for my ek.

I appreciate this. I might just give that a try. When I got the car the throttle plate was sticking from all the carbon buildup, and I gave it a good clean with a rag and throttle body cleaner. Solved the problem, but it got me wondering what else was dirty in there... I was a intimidated to take off the throttle body but that DIY you posted looks pretty clear! Thanks.

Thank you for the response! This is bang on with with the "to do" list I've got... And I'm beginning to think I might be able to do it without spending an arm and a leg.

1. Put the timing back to 10-12 degrees
2. clean the cat... (acid bath? soap and water? tide? Oxyclean and sarcasm?)
3. O2 sensor cleaning (ala OptimisticWay's video - thanks!)
4. "Guaranteed to pass"
5. And pump up the front tires for the dyno. (more that they were under-inflated the first go, and I didn't even consider it)

I think I've got a pretty good shot.

Ironically I've got a few good offers on the car just today, so I may end up selling before I have a chance to get it done!

TomCat39

Tide and other things won't do any good for the Catalytic converter, the only thing shown to help with deposits is a citric acid bath. It doesn't hurt the precious metals plating on the ceramic substrate but does seem to remove the gunk that coats the substrate. So not just any acid but citric acid.

Also the timing needs to be at 16 degrees if it's the 92-95 D series motor, I guess the 96+ OBD2 went to 12 degrees but our OBD1 motors is 16 degrees btdc for proper ignition timing. You want ignition timing set so your light, sight and pulley marker lign up to the middle (red) mark of the 3 marks close together. That is properly timed.

mithious

I was actually joking about the tide, based on a thread someone posted here a little while ago. "Oxyclean works best with sarcasm" was an epic response.

As for the timing, I described that in my initial post. My first try it was set at about 8 degrees and it failed by a little. Second try I advanced it right to 16 degrees and it failed by a lot.

Further research revealed slightly retarding the timing will reduce hydrocarbons, but greatly retarding timing increases hydrocarbons.

Based on that research and that experience I thought 10-12 degrees to sound about right, until someone gives me a better number.

tony_2018

Hey..........not cool.......