GCLance

Hey everyone,

I picked up an EF (Hatch, DX, Auto) not too long ago. Story goes that the car wasn't turning on anymore, the day I went to go get it. Me and my brother looked around and the battery fuse was busted. We temporarily swapped it for another fuse of the same size and got the car to turn on. On top of that, the battery was dead. Jumped it, checked it and we noticed that the brake lights were on. He figured it was nothing too bad, but just to save us the headache of the car dying on us, he took out the bulbs. After that we brought it home.

After getting it home, I researched and fiddled around and figured it was that brake sensor thing. I replaced it with a screw that was left over from my brother's mudflap install (not too sure about the size, but it fit perfectly). Anyway, I went on to inspecting the car. At the time, I thought the only issue was the battery (confirmed by PO) and the body. It needs the fenders, corner lights, maybe a front bumper, the right door, and a paint job. - My brother said it also needs axles, I'm keeping that in mind.

The next night when I got home from work, I realized I didn't actually inspect anything, so I popped the hood and looked around. At the moment, my oil is pitch black, the coolant and power steering fluid look extremely dirty and watery (think of cooking oil + water). To top it all off, when I popped the spark plug wires to check the spark plugs, all four of them were covered in oil, not only that but also the wire for #2 (or #3) kind of broke, I think. I didn't bother taking out the spark plugs because I could tell the hole was filled with oil.

I've been researching for that past few days and concluded that I'll need a new battery, a major tune-up, asap, and new grommets to fix the oily spark plug hole issue. Well, either that or a rebuild. - If I remember right, the PO said the car just hit 200,000 not too long ago. So I'm here to ask for help and guidance lol.

TL;DR - I need a tune-up, possibly a rebuild, but I need advice before I do anything

Okay so, I figured if the motor is in need of a rebuild, why not spend the money on a swap. - I don't mind if the car is out of commission, it's not exactly needed right now, I just wanted to have a car to work on/just in case. But anyway my questions in regards to that are:

1. Should I even rebuild the motor, or just change the grommets and give it a tune-up? How should I go about the dirty/old fluids, should I flush them??
2. Should I swap the motor, or just rebuild it?
3. What motor? D or B? VTEC or Non-V? (Mainly DD, wouldn't mind some extra kick from a reliable motor)

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On a side note, I do want to get better handling out of it too, I looked into it and I understand that some EG suspension parts are compatible with the EFs. So my questions are:

1. Get EF specific parts and avoid the trouble of fitment issues, or get EG parts?
2. What about DA parts?

Thanks to anyone who helps me out, and to whomever reads all this, lol.

F22Master

The best power per dollar swap is a stock B20 (~$500) with a b16 cable trans ($200-400). Then add in mounts, axles, starter, ecu, wiring, fluids, shift linkage, etc. You're looking at around $1500-2000 for a nice swap. You can of course, do it for much cheaper, buying many used parts and whatnot, but then that just leaves more things to go wrong...

GCLance

Yeah, I had in mind a LS or a B20. I don't know much about D-power because, well, I was always told that Ds weren't worth the mods, lol. I remember there was a guy here in Jersey with a 400hp B20 EF. He said it was a track machine, but it was more like a dyno queen lol. That's not important. - I'll look into B20s more, and I'm guess I'd need to do an Auto-Man swap and MPFI, right?

I don't want to keep the automatic, but if I needed to, could I keep mine or use a newer one?

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

1. Start cheap and then work your way up. Don't rebuild it if a couple worn pieces is all it needs.
2. I'd say go with a swap.
3. You have several choices, all of which with their ups and down. You definitely need to select a price point and that decides it all.

D-series
D16A6 - straight from the Si, bolts right in. The ECU is plug and play. All you have to do is convert from DPFI to MPFI and you are good to go.
D16Z6/D16Y8/ZC/D15B - The VTEC D-series motors of choice. Usually ran on a P28 ECU for ease of installment. Requires DPFI to MPFI and OBD0 to OBD1.

B-Series
B16A - Generally referred to as torque less, but it is the entry level DOHC VTEC B-series motor.
B18C - The GSR or ITR motors are pretty popular and are a well rounded choice. Significantly more pricey than a B16A though.
B18A/B - Referred to as the LS motor. These are Non-VTEC. They are cheap and common.
B20 - The largest displacement B-series motor. Low compression in stock form leads to low HP numbers, but comes with a good amount of torque.

H/F-Series
H23 - 'Blue top' This is the most common H-series swap. It is huge, remember that. You will probably use a H2B kit which is pricey. Some boast the power of a K but much cheaper.

K-Series
K20/k24 - Tons of options within the K-series line up. You can mix and match heads and blocks and different set ups put out different numbers. A straight K24 is the cheapest, but after it is all said and done, is still more expensive than most other swaps. $5,000+

I neglected a couple series of motors, most notably the J series which is definitely a hard one to fit in an EF chassis.

1. Stick with EF parts. Most of the EG stuff is NOT interchangeable. Some are though.

2. DA parts mix much better. Read this article.
http://www.ef-honda.com/ben/EFhybridsus.php

LS/B20 are both good options. Very cheap and parts can be had for a decent price. The D-series is underrated for what it is. It's definitely the cheapest and easiest. 400HP isn't ground breaking, not to completely discount it. For the B20 you will want to do the auto-manual swap and DPFI to MPFI. Set your eyes on a B-series cable trans with LSD. That will be a very big performance break for the B20. Definitely find a short geared (Y1/YS1) trans if you can.

whited

98 spec B18C Type R.

End Thread.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

Probably the most reliable, well rounded, motor swap for the EF. Do a cable to hydro pedal conversion too.

Pricey though.

F22Master

Right, tell the noob to spend $3500 on just the engine and trans... good move!...

GCLance

I wish I could do a Type-R swap ! That'd be amazing. Would love a supercharged or N/A C5. I think I'm going to keep looking into Bs, maybe a LS or a B16A. A B20 would also be awesome, but it seems like a lot. If I had the money to pay a shop to do it, I'd do it, cause honestly, I can't say I know what I'm doing lol.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

A b20 and a LS are the same swap-ish. The B20 isn't much more complicated. The B16 has the wiring for VTEC, not that VTEC is complicated.

Deetz

Price of the swap would be the same. I'd take a B20Z any day over a B16A, way faster

questo209

I gotta say that unless you're going to 1) spend a fair amount of money for a good swap 2) do a auto to manual swap, then stay with the D series options. They are a good place to start as you can get a hold of one for a fairly cheap price tag.

whited

Look at my build. $3500 is a kick in the bucket to me at this point.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

Yeah...$3,500 is a lot of money to suggest. I don't think you should base everything off of your own build though.

OP seems to be leaning towards a LS swap. I think the intake on the B20 may have scared him away from that.

hedge6504

If your looking to add some horsepower while keeping costs down, I would recommend a mini-me swap (D15b2 block with a D16z6 head). Its cheap, reliable and you'll already have to open up the head to change the spark plug tube grommets anyway. I bought a neglected 88' Ef with 250k awhile back and did simple maintenance (battery, changed all fluids and spark plugs/grommets); I now run full synthetic and it runs great. These engines will run forever. Just my 2 cents

RanCRX

I say the b20, b18 and b16 are all fun engines. I driven them all however the b20 in a da integra and it was built for 11 sec. So I'm guessing the stock b20 will be like the b18 but slightly better. The b18 and b20 are good from the start (from a launch at 0) but I did notice they lacked power from mid to high range (not including my buddies built b20). VTEC does help in that area and that is why a lot of people do LSV or B20 vtec. The b16 lacks in torque however, equipped with the oem b16 trans with 4.40 final drive, it is quite easy to launch 4-5k rev to compensate that loss. Thats from a standing point though. That's all NA stock engines. Obviously when modifying, thats when things starts seperating

Oh yeah, if you get your hands on a GSR or type R, that's a whole different story. I was refering to the LS B18

Dark_Teg

You will want to piece together an engine to get the best bang for the buck. I initially bought a 96 spec Type R engine for $2,800.00 to start my build but if I had knew then what I know now I would would built an LS-VTEC and had more power for way less money.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

I would have went with an H23 if I knew what I knew now. Stayed NA too.

GCLance

Thank you for the input everyone.

I think I'll have to pick between the mini me, LS, and B20 swaps. There's a lot to consider for me lol. I'll just keep doing homework. If anything, I'll expand the project, start simple then progress into a serious build.

whited

But there is nothing like the OEM goodness of a B18C Type R making 210hp.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

195 at the crank? It's a nice motor, but there is nothing like piecing it together (bang for buck).

whited

Different sources says different things on the B18C. Once I found a source that said 210, so I'd like to believe that one.

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

LoL! It's all formulas anyways!

JDM 96+ Spec B18C is where it's at.

GCLance

I finally found some time to really look at the car in good lighting. The motor oil doesn't look as bad as I thought. Coolant looks ok, but I still want to flush it. The power steering fluid and the brake fluid still look iffy, but I wouldn't know. - Whats worse is that I found a leak of what looks like transmission fluid. When we jacked the car up, we also found oil leak too. The trans fluid looks like its coming from in between the engine and the tranny. The motor oil looks like it's coming from the right (serpentine belt side)



Pictures here

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

Man if you were my kid brother I would say just price out tuneup cost...... as long as engine is healthy and you dont have to spend more than $300 on tune up I would just have you keep the motor and build the suspension brakes buy other non engine stuff for your car while you do more research on swaps. No need to rush into swap when you dont have to.

GCLance

I appreciate that, thanks man. Its funny cause Im not taking his advice, I'll just keep doing what I was planning and replacing the grommets, spark plug tubes, spark plugs and valve cover gasket.

I'm thinking that's where the leak was coming from. The trans fluid or whatever that red fluid is, I dunno.

I had it jumped and I just took it for a spin. Even went full throttle, lol. The motor is definitely still healthy, it just need maintenance.