Mishako129

Hey ya'll. I was lookin into the bisi header and heard amazing things about it. Being that its so pricey I just think its ridiculous to have to pay that much for welded metal pipes. I mean, does the thing wash your *** when you take a shower for that price? It better come with a midget who can rub your back. Lol. Seriously though, I would buy that header if only it wasn't so expensive.
I was looking for a generic for the F series but it seems nobody makes them. I know that bisi makes them custom for you setup but that shouldn't make them so expensive imho, even if they are awesome. I've seen people make custom versions of the bisi header before and I don't get it how welded pipes can be so expensive, its not like they're made of solid gold.

Would really like to how they can be so expensive. I'm just frustrated that I can't buy them.

GhostAccord

Bisi claims that his headers are custom made for your build... However, if you tell him you have an F22 with this and that, it goes in the F22 jig and gets welded up the same as every other F22 header.

The reason his headers are so expensive is because people believe it's worth it and they continue to pay him. It's all in the sales pitch... snake oil! Yes he put a lot of R&D into his own F22 race header that was on his Honda Insight drag car. That R&D has been paid for 10 fold by now. IMO his headers should be in the $600 - $700 range. Now, if you actually had a purpose built engine that would require some new calculations and actual fabrication, then I can see paying north of $1k for one. That's, on average, what you would pay to have one built anywhere else.

I find it funny that his sales rep came out a while back stating that the welder they had been using hadn't been back purging during the welding process. Now they are! No back purge would probably be a good reason that there were a few that cracked!

Being a Pipefitter/welder and having access to design software and welding materials. I am making my own equal length shorty header, what you call Bisi style. I see it costing me approx. $400/$500 for all the stainless materials and consumables. That is including a Burns stainless merge collector and a CNC SS flange. Then you have to add in the hours for fitting and welding. Not hard to see why they would be as expensive as they are.

Those cheap overseas headers that you see are made from cheap materials using cheap scab labour. That is why they are so inexpensive. You don't get products made in North America for the price of a bag of rice!

98vtec

OP. make one yourself and let me know how much it costs.

to start off, most of the american companies have a TIG setup that run over 5000 dollars. cost of materials, time....you have to make a profit or your business does not turn a success. a real american dream isnt outsourcing and being the middle man. Its making your own product, in your own shop, with your own tools and be able to pay your bills with money on top to make a living.

if you dont understand that then move to a third world country where the currency is bananas and corn.

Zak325

@ghost if you're making a turbo header I might want one.

Sepulveda87

i had a bisi header for 2 days. got rid of it. exhaust leak was terrible. bisi's "QC" dept sucks really bad. i say this because i am a QC inspector my self. will not buy another bisi header.

GhostAccord

If I'm not mistaken it was shown that Bisimoto Engineering had outsourced a few batches of headers for a group buy to an overseas company. I can't remember where I saw it but there were shipping and import documents actually showing XX amount of header units being shipped to Bisi from overseas.

If I remember correctly the fab for the units took almost a year. They kept telling the members that they were waiting for materials to clear customs... yeah in the form of finished units from China... Living the American dream.. charge your customers $800/unit and pay your cheap labour $800 for 20.....

I could be persuaded to make one... Unfortunately I don't have a chassis and engine that I can use to mock one up at the moment.

There are a number of cases of loos fitting and leaking slip joints. They say that is what you get with any race header..... I've had my share of slip fit exhausts and they very rarely leaked like these ones were leaking.

Mishako129

Yeah I heard they were renowned for leaks.

Anyways. I was looking on my favorite site, eBay and saw something that was for the F22a engines and looked similar to the Bisi header. It is the only thing that even comes close to looking like it. Its an OBX turbo header. My question is why can't someone modify this to work NA, i'm sure it would give some good gains. Its design looks pretty good. Its by no means cheap at 325 dollars, but that's much better than what Bisi is asking.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBX-Steel-Turbo-Header-Non-VTEC-92-01-Prelude-SI-H23-90-93-Accord-F22A-/121273991475?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c3c7e4133&vxp=mtr

I wanna see someone modify this and dyno it, that'd be sweet.

19Accord97

OBX? You may as well use toilet paper rolls. They'll last about the same amount of time.

Mishako129

It says they come with a limited life time warranty don't see how they can be bad if they come with that.

MAD_MIKE

Modify it for what? N/A usage? That would be pointless.

We've had the header problem discussion before, make your own one piece long tube primary units.

Mishako129

I don't understand how it would be useless, the design on the Bisi header is the best header there is and gives much more HP increase than your standard "one piece long tube primary units", the header I linked is of a similar design. Why would it not be a good idea to try to modify it for non-turbo?

Found this thread talking about the same thing:

http://www.d-series.org/forums/natur...-n-header.html

Mishako129

Yeah I guess you're right. I'm trying to get something like the bisi header, that's all, without spending too much. Got some questions as well about it if I do decide to get it. Like for instance, what is the collector downpipe size and would it be a problem to use a 2.25" exhaust with it? I think it was 2.5". Another thing is the leaky flanges, did anyone figure out how to stop the leaks? I would like it to be as streetable as possible so no leaks are a definite plus. Also would the header give me better gas mileage? Don't laugh at that last question lol.

98vtec

Because it doesn't work that way. In reality, a turbo manifold was designed (by the original makers) for turbo...not NA which will have drastically different flow characteristics. Would it work? Sure. But why? If all you care about is looks then buy the cheapest twisted looking header u can find and just replace it when it breaks from the fusion weld cracking.

Also, if any of the other custom header manufacturers cared about the F, I can guarantee you there would be more power consider how awesome his design has been for other platforms *sarcasm *

GhostAccord

You have a lot of other things you should be thinking about other than a purpose built race header anyway!

That OBX header, will not flow the same as the Bisi header. The primaries are shorter and smaller in diameter. Like I told you before, you have to start using actual measurements instead of building engines using your eyes as measuring tools. That design isn't exactly the best for all around street use ether. The 4-1 is more for top end drag uses. The Tri-Y has been shown to be the better all around design for street & strip uses. Sure you could go long tube 4-1 but that is still designed for mid to high RPM range.

In case no one has realized this, the OP is trying to build a race car out of a push-cart. Misha, before you go looking for a $500-$1k header, you should decide what one of your engines you are going to be using. Then you should get it up and running without any issues. After you have done that you could start looking at performance mods. Baby steps & focus!

FYI,
As far as the OBX-R headers, I've been running a ram horn style header, similar to the one you posted but N/A, on my Tribute for 2 years now with no cracks or leaks. Works better than the shorter, smaller diameter ram that was on it from the factory.



And no Misha, you cannot modify it to fit an F22/H23/F23.

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

serious OP seems to be trolling. lol




- if you can't afford bisi stuff STFU and go buy ebay stuff. Unless your aruging the merit of performance that's a different subject. But your simply basing your post off of price.

- sure you modify the obx manifold and put it on NA car, just get a t3 flang and well a J-downpipe section to it. Then go test it out and find out if it makese power....... go use your own money and see how "awesome" that test would be.

GhostAccord

I don't think you are going to get anyone to waste their time or money modifying and testing this POS.

Why don't you give it a try and let us know how you make out!


Oh and could you please do me a favor and stop calling the equal length, shorty 4 - 1 header design a "Bisi design". This header design was around before Ndubisi was even born.

19Accord97

.......search for obx quality and see the results that u get. Ive tried obx before...never again.

But go for it if u want

CD5B2

Why even consider buying a header that has the same value as your car? Seems like a waste imo.

I would put that money into a decent suspension kit and polyurethane bushings if I were you. You can have a engine with x amount of extra horsepower than a stock f22a1, with this and this, but it's still gonna look like and ride **** if you don't lower it and replace important bushings. Don't neglect your suspension.

98vtec

Everything you do to your car beyond maintenance and standard repair is a waste of money. All relative.

CD5B2

I completely agree, but these cars can benefit greatly from upgrading the suspension. Even an entry level drop makes the driving experience more enjoyable. Not to mention the wheel gap is horrendous with 15" rims and lower profile tires.

Sepulveda87

i just wish PLM made a race header for the single f series

NerfGunner420

look at bisis youtube video he has video showing improvements and hp gains with his headers.

GhostAccord

You should be looking at the third party dynos and videos of his header vs other comparable headers. They tend to come up flat in most cases!