Torino117

I have a 1998 Honda Accord sedan V6. 130,000 miles later and I'm thinking I should look into something new for the next oil change. 5W-30 still. But I've heard so many things about the many oils they have to offer out there. Like Royal Purple, or just synthetics in general (running conventional).

Not sure if switching to a synthetic will result in any problems.

But if none of that works out, just want to know the best oil out there to keep this engine running safe and sound.

nicolaselias

This topic has been covered over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.....

you get my point... hit the search button, i can think of this being discussed fairly recently a few times even..

curiousdude

if u not using synthetic before, dont switch to synthetic now.. just switch to a higher weight like 10w30 or so.. if u hit like 150k miles or something..

faran

Use dino oil in winter 5W/30 for smooth and EZ start switch back to 10w/30 in summer.

Do'nt go for synthetic as its 3X expensive as of Dino.

Hope it will help,

Best Regards,

FS

nicolaselias

For clarification, Synthetic is 2x (or less in some cases) the price of dino... certainly not 3x..

Torino117

Thanks for all of the input!

plugger

You have to match your choice of oil to the condition of your engine. If an engine is like new (low wear, not burning significant amount of oil), the grade of oil specified by the manufacturer in the owner handbook for the engine when new is a safe choice. But if the engine is significantly worn, and burning lots of oil, a heavier "high mileage" oil formulation will protect your engine better, as well as being less expensive to run.

Also, you can't judge the condition of an engine by mileage alone. Lots of well cared for high mileage engines have surprisingly little wear, whereas many low mileage cars can have significantly worn engines because of poor maintenance.

(BTW, synthetic oil in a worn engine is an exercise in expensive futility.)

lil.mS.ek

it's all up to you. personally i'd go with 5w30 in the winter. i mean as long as you take care of your car & do oil changes every 3x miles you shouldnt worry about this too much

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Or just read the owner's manual which goes over the oil weights recommended as well as maintenance intervals.

But that's too easy

plugger

Yes, it is. (Read my post above.)

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Incorrect.

High Mileage oil just has additives that bloat the rubber seals in the motor causing them to, well, swell up to a point where there won't be a leak.

Putting "high mileage" oil in a motor that has high mileage but has no issues could CAUSE issues. Where gaskets are swollen and then expand to a point where they break or loosen up and pop out resulting in a leak.

The best course of action would be to repair your leaking motor by replacing seals, fluids, etc and get it up to a better condition then running the manufacturer recommended oil weight.

*edit* Not too mention certain Honda motors are just notorious oil burners. H22's and B18C5's come to mind.

plugger

The most significant difference between a high mileage oil and the grade recommended in the owners handbook is that the high mileage grade will be a significantly heavier oil. Worn engines will burn a light grade oil much faster than a heavier grade oil. Any special additives that are designed to stop oil-leaks (as opposed to oil-burning, a completely separate issue) are very much a secondary factor. In any case, the idea that these will cause any significant issues if used in a non-oil burning cars doesn't really stand up to serious scrutiny. If you are really scared by such , just use a heavier grade oil without any "dangerous" additives.

As I said above, you need to match the oil to actual engine condition, not simple-mindedly use what's recommended in the manufacturers handbook. That handbook recommendation always assumes an engine without significant wear.

Capiche?

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

5w-30 High Mileage is identical to 5w-30 conventional ....with 10-15% of additives and a slight mix of synthetic, per Castrol here:

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7017085


Or how about from Vavoline?

http://www.valvoline.com/faqs/motor-...age-motor-oil/

Fixing the issues are a MUCH better fix then patching it with oil additives. And you danced around the subject a bit without saying you're incorrect. Using a heavier grade is using a heavier grade, high mileage of the same grade is no benefit except it has additives that are a "secondary factor".

And incorrect on the handbook, they have recommendations for heavy abuse as well. Including oil weights for temperature/driving style/etc. Which I believe 10w30 is recommended as well. The newer V6's recommend 5w-20 if I'm not mistaken for regular driving.

plugger

"Heavy abuse" recommendations are not "worn engine burning oil recommendations".

They are recommendations for how to _avoid_ a new engine becoming a "worn engine burning oil" if driving under what they define as "severe" conditions.

As I said above, you need to match the oil to actual engine condition, not simple-mindedly use what's recommended in the manufacturers handbook. That handbook recommendation always assumes an engine without significant wear.

Capiche?

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Or ignore what I just posted...........

Fix the problem permanently (replace rubber seals, etc) and you then don't have a "worn engine" using band-aid fixes, like high mileage oils with additives. And as a result will have a better running motor. You cannot deny the truth in that.

Capiche?

*edit*

And going by what I've said I had an Accord at 200k with no issues on the F22B1 before swapping for an H22 and currently have an Accord at 160k without issues. AND let's assume your motor has been beat to hell and the oil isn't cutting it. Then I would first send out the oil to be examined (Blackstone for example) and see exactly what is happening. It may be working just fine. If they suggest otherwise I'd switch to the heavy abuse recommendation from Honda, which for the Accord is 10w30 and reexamine my oil change intervals.

Torino117

I'm glad this thread turned into a complete flame war over oil.


Right now I'm running Castrol GTX high mileage, from the looks of the above posts, I might as well stay with that, though the engine is in good shape (owned by a teacher up north for 120,000 who brought it to the dealer for EVERYTHING) it seems like it won't "screw up" things with a bunch of additives that other high mileage tend to have.

To let you all know, I am 18, I am in no way a genius on every part of an engine, and I really appreciate all of the hoopla this has caused, (good reading for me).

buci1

Conventional oil has proved time after time after time after time that when changed on proper recommended intervals will keep the engine going even after 300.000 miles mark.By that time(15 years plus) your car will have little or no value at all and a "superclean" engine will do you no good,so i don't see a reason to pay for synthetic (unless you're racing).My accord has low mileage but my Es300 has 220.000 miles with regular oil,changed every 4000 miles and no problems whatsoever so far.

plugger

Glad you are entertained. Even better if you pick up some useful info.

Going over this one last time for the benefit of MM:

Yes, it is.

As I said above, you need to match the oil to actual engine condition, not simple-mindedly use what's recommended in the manufacturers handbook. That handbook recommendation always assumes an engine without significant wear.

The other piece of advice is to take recommendations with a grain of salt from people who think a worn engine is fixed by "replacing rubber seals, etc".

Good luck!

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Jesus christ.

You are as stubborn as a rock, if not more so. Have you read ANYTHING I've posted?

If your engine is higher mileage and leaking somewhere, fix the damn leak. Don't put in high mileage oil which, SURPRISE, has oil additives meant to swell seals/gaskets to help clog up leaks. Which you claim is a "secondary" function of the oil. No genius, that's what it's there to do. Period. High Mileage 5w-30 is identical to convential 5w-30 but has additives in it to swell up rubber seals (balance shaft seal, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, crank shaft seal, etc) and help gum up leaks.

If you don't believe me, read Castrol's or Valvoline's website I linked to, it explains it clear as day right there.

Matching it to the engine condition my ***. If you have a problem with the motor you fix it, you don't patch it temporarily with a band-aid fix. If you cannot see how that makes sense you're a moron.

Send your oil to Blackstone (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/) who will analyze your oil and tell you how well it's performing. They can give you motor specific information on what intervals and what not you should try.

The owner's manual for the 50th time has the recommended oil for the motor in heavy abuse situations (ie it gets beat on) as well as normal conditions. If you're not having any issues then just stay on top of the regular intervals and you're fine. If you for some reason think using the Honda recommended oil is going to blow up your motor as plugger seems to think it will, then I don't even know what to tell you.

I've done an H22A swap, NSX brake swap, as well as a **** ton of other Accord specific modifications/maintenance items and now have an S2000. If I didn't know what I was talking about, I wouldn't be posting.

And if anyone is curious - I ran Mobil 1 5w30 Extended Performance in the H22A with a Mobil 1 filter changed ~5k miles.
The S2000 gets Amsoil 10w30 with Mobil 1 filter changed ~5k miles. Thus far I have been quite a fan of Amsoil though it is not available everywhere in stores.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Here is an excerpt from the Helm's on what oils are suggested (not the heavy/regular) for the F22B1/2 in a 94-97



I'm searching for the heavy use suggestion piece. But the manual is 1400 pages long

*edit* And to add the 5w-30 and 10w-30 are the recommended ones in the text, sorry the picture doesn't illustrate that. The 98-02 Accord should have a similar chart for its suggested oil weights.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

And you know, the more I think of it, the more it makes less sense. Plugger, why don't you elaborate on what defines a "worn engine" that warrants someone to use a different oil than recommended. Then maybe also post your source as to why you are reasoning this.

Your recommendation of high mileage oil is a silly one, as I've shot it down multiple times now and you disregard what I've posted and just repeat the same worthless "information". Assuming a person uses the same weight, it offers no benefit beyond the oil additives that are meant to stop leaks in rubber seals (which you shrug your should at). This is why I suggested a person fix the problem with rubber seals and not just keep putting in high mileage oil.

If you're telling someone to "match the oil to the engine condition" why don't you elaborate on what requires what. On top of that, I find it incredibly odd that you will not admit fixing a problem is better than a band-aid fix.

OP mentions no issues with the motor, then in no way should he need to change oils to anything other than the recommended from Honda per the manual.

So how about reading the post next time before responding - then respond to the whole thing and not quote an old post 20 times? Capiche?

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Torino117

As another somewhat related maintenance note, see if you can find records of the transmission being fixed or having its fluid changed on a regular basis. Those year transmissions have a nasty habit of grenading themselves and I believe it is only the 99-02 that are covered by the extended warranty.

plugger

MM,

I appreciate you are trying to be helpful, and you mean well, but if you actually knew what you were talking about, *I* wouldn't be posting!

You still seem to be having some difficulty in understanding the difference between an engine that leaks oil, and an engine that burns oil. Fixing an oil leak means putting in a new seal; fixing a worn engine that burns oil excessively due to, say, worn valve guides, is a different proposition entirely.

In short, I suspect the reason you are getting so heated up about this is because you don't understand what is the meaning of the commonly used term "worn engine". It refers to wear of valve guides, rings, and bearings... these are all metal components. Repairs to these components involve replacement, sleeving, or machining - generally expensive stuff. This has nothing to do with rubber seals or parts at all. You can replace every rubber seal on a worn engine that burns oil, and you will still have -- a worn engine that burns oil.

So, let us assume you have a worn engine that burns an excessive amount of oil using the handbook recommended grade for new engines. What to do?

Well, as you suggest, you *could* get it brought back to like-new spec. Assuming money is no object, of course. For a mild to medium case of engine wear, however, that might not make a lot of economic sense. You could easily spend more than the car is worth.

The other extreme option is to junk the engine/car as not worth repairing. But that might not make a lot of economic sense, either. With a little bit of thoughtful management, the engine could have many more years and miles of useful life. That's where matching the choice of oil to the state of the engine comes in. (Ta-da!) For example, if it is burning an excessive amount of oil at the grade recommended in the manufacturers handbook, changing to a heavier grade of oil will often be the simple trick to slow oil consumption and yet keep the engine happy. OTOH, changing to a synthetic will typically only exacerbate an oil consumption problem.

As I said above, you need to match the oil to actual engine condition, not simple-mindedly use what's recommended in the manufacturers handbook. That handbook recommendation always assumes an engine without significant wear. And that's true for their recommendations for both normal and "severe conditions" use (another persistent confusion you seem to be labouring under is that "severe conditions" recommendations are somehow "worn engine" recomendations. No, no, and no. )

Capiche?

I suspect not, but I tried.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

Your suggesting "high mileage" oil is what threw me off as choosing oil for a worn engine.

To reference your first post:

Then no, high mileage oil does not offer any better protection than conventional, save for the oil additives that do exactly as I've suggested.

And on your next post:

Once again, you're misrepresenting "high mileage" oil that the OP is using and using a different weight of oil.

If in fact you do actually have wear on your valves or bearings due to abuse, you're only doing a "quick fix" by changing oil weight, correct? But I would still go by the owner's manual for recommended weights before going and tossing in 0w30 Using the OEM recommended "heavy abuse" suggestion keeps the oil within OEM specs and would be a heavier oil, which is why I mentioned it and continue to suggest it.

After you've explained exactly what you're referencing yes, I understand where you are coming from and agree to an extent. But you (owner) are just delaying the inevitable engine rebuild.

And again, certain Honda motors just burn more oil than others. B18C5 in VTEC rips through the stuff like a wildfire and and H22 doesn't fair much better.

And I agree whole-heartedly that going to synthetic with a worn engine/older engine is not worth the extra money as the damage is done.

TheMuffinMan

iTrader: (1)

And on top of that, per the OP's information of it being a well maintained car and going to the dealership for service regularly, I wouldn't even both suggesting any other oil weight than the owner's manual recommended.

So other than recommending they send their oil for analysis, I don't know why you'd post about matching the oil to a worn motor in the thread.