Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
#51
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,009
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
like i said before its all preference. when it comes down to budgets i still believe the H route is the cheaper and more reliable way to obtain a faster than stock car. somebody said something about preferably using B over H for road racing/ autocross. its funny you said that cuz ive seen a handful of guys use h22s in civics and do just fine by them. its all preference right? one last thing i gotta throw out there. i would never judge anybody based on their sign on date cuz i for one been on here for 6 years and i had a few different computers and accounts. im sure im not the only one.
Anyhow this arguement seems like no one will get there points across. no matter what Opinion A says, someone from Opinion B will refute it. As before im not a Pro AM guy, but i happen to like all of the motors. Its just that some aspects of each motor i dont like.
#52
moderator emeritus
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
i understand that but it shouldnt take a 1200 dollar clutch setup to make it shift. Not only that, a twin disk isnt something i would enjoy being that my car is also my DD....for now. A set of synchros properly spec'd to allow us to shift in the 8000+ rpm area would be prime. I'm going twin disk next, but thats beside the point :p
#53
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
i understand that but it shouldnt take a 1200 dollar clutch setup to make it shift. Not only that, a twin disk isnt something i would enjoy being that my car is also my DD....for now. A set of synchros properly spec'd to allow us to shift in the 8000+ rpm area would be prime. I'm going twin disk next, but thats beside the point :p
believe me i used to feel the exact same way as you, however after using a twin i will NEVER go back to a single.
also a twin is fine for a daily driver, we have one in a boosted h22 which is driven daily and the owner is an old fart who complains about everything, however he loves the clutch lol it is a competition clutch twin in a stock h22 trans.
when i was running a single disk exedy in my 280whp motor using the stock h22 trans several years ago i was revving to 9k w/o any shifting problems when the trans was in good condition for an entire season, not 1 missed gear!!!!. BUT before i rebuilt the trans it wouldnt shift at all and almost made me give up on H motors alltogether haha.
if you have never taken the trans apart and checked everything i would defiantely do that first because you would be amazed at what a difference a fresh set of parts would do for you. it will give you a totaly different opinion of the cable shifted h trans.
#54
moderator emeritus
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
i have a spare tranny that i have torn apart, but i still have a brain block of understanding how all those parts work together without eating each other alive.
#55
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
man, all we need is Bisi in here to argue that the single cam is the greatest thing conceived since fossil fuel, and we would have a full house.
#56
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
main things to look at and make sure are nice and smooth: syncro teeth, dog teeth (on the gear), hub and slider.
if any of those parts have burs on them it wont shift smooth. you can use a file to reahspe and smooth those parts for a quick fix, however nothing is as smooth and nice as new parts haha
if you want to make certain it will shift you can remove every other tooth, i have done this before. but i wouldnt recomend it for a daily driver
#58
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
but you want the surface of the teeth to be smooth and free of burs.
kinda like when you file piston rings to ajust the gap, you will get a burr from grinding them. you have to go back and file all the sides/angles smooth to remove the burrs.....make sense?
#59
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Somewhere in PA, USA
Posts: 421
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
yeah man you want them to remain sharp/pointed like stock and not flattened or crushed.
but you want the surface of the teeth to be smooth and free of burs.
kinda like when you file piston rings to ajust the gap, you will get a burr from grinding them. you have to go back and file all the sides/angles smooth to remove the burrs.....make sense?
but you want the surface of the teeth to be smooth and free of burs.
kinda like when you file piston rings to ajust the gap, you will get a burr from grinding them. you have to go back and file all the sides/angles smooth to remove the burrs.....make sense?
#66
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
#67
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
i run b in 95mm crank and rev 10.000 all race time and no power drop at all (peaked was @ 9000rpm)
powerdrop was because volumetric eficiency drop, we know the H making % of VE bigger than B in their same displacement.
b series was popular to the pro allmotor guys simply for parts availability at the time making it easy to extract power from them. also the H series gearing was not acceptable while the stock b series gearbox was exactly what was needed.
however even back then the H's were running just as fast or faster than the B's.
Today is a different story alltogether, especially w/ the availability of H2b. it is alot easier to make more power w/ an H series today over a B for sure.
today anyone can throw together a mild build 300+whp H series and compete w/ the K's.
you cant do that w/ a b series now.
also most of those K's making 300+ are on a 99mm stroke. im making a very reliable 300+ w/ a 95mm stroke in my H and still have plenty of room for improvement
you also wont get that w/ a b series either haha
i guess what im saying is back in the day the H and B were fairly equal, but times have definately changed
however even back then the H's were running just as fast or faster than the B's.
Today is a different story alltogether, especially w/ the availability of H2b. it is alot easier to make more power w/ an H series today over a B for sure.
today anyone can throw together a mild build 300+whp H series and compete w/ the K's.
you cant do that w/ a b series now.
also most of those K's making 300+ are on a 99mm stroke. im making a very reliable 300+ w/ a 95mm stroke in my H and still have plenty of room for improvement
you also wont get that w/ a b series either haha
i guess what im saying is back in the day the H and B were fairly equal, but times have definately changed
@rice yep its done on b, i've proved it my own 311whp B series (2.2) on dastek dyno, 260whp on dynodynamics. but the B was costing crazy $$$$$$$ if we compare to the H. just like the NAH2B said "mild" (mild money also).
And at this moment we could do simple built on EG/EF chasis for H2B swap, bisimoto made their adapter plate kit, i think H2B was the best for Power/Money ratio theoritically.
#68
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
Well then dont make assinine comments and you wont have assinine responses . .
If you say it can be done, please build a 13.5 :1, Stock cylinder head B series that makes 300hp . . .
Until then, just sit on the sidelines where you belong . .
Now back to the ORIGINAL topic at hand . . .
One of the major reasons was part availability. For example What "larger" camshafts were available to the H series crowd? Not much . . Where the B series, while still under developed in comparison to now, had a lot more options.
That said- Norris P and Jeremy L. both ran H series. Leslie A. and Erick A. both ran B series.
Now I personally used to own one of Jeremy's H series motors that he ran back in the day. I never owned a Pro B series motor but from what I heard, to get them to run the way they did, took a lot of bearing changes with some crazy stroke, for a B series at least. Although I cant confirm this. I can say that I didnt have to do that on my H.
So why did most people run the B series? Personal preference I guess . . lol
If you say it can be done, please build a 13.5 :1, Stock cylinder head B series that makes 300hp . . .
Until then, just sit on the sidelines where you belong . .
Now back to the ORIGINAL topic at hand . . .
One of the major reasons was part availability. For example What "larger" camshafts were available to the H series crowd? Not much . . Where the B series, while still under developed in comparison to now, had a lot more options.
That said- Norris P and Jeremy L. both ran H series. Leslie A. and Erick A. both ran B series.
Now I personally used to own one of Jeremy's H series motors that he ran back in the day. I never owned a Pro B series motor but from what I heard, to get them to run the way they did, took a lot of bearing changes with some crazy stroke, for a B series at least. Although I cant confirm this. I can say that I didnt have to do that on my H.
So why did most people run the B series? Personal preference I guess . . lol
lol, i think there isnt a personal preference in racing, racing = money = business...
if it about business so if this is still the era of no K, many B Pro All Motor guy would be running H.
Skunk2 have their Pro 3 for H2B, Web cam have custom also, some fabricator have almost *14mm lift with roller rocker for H also (just like the B they made).... so does the gearing, that lot of fabs made for em.
so no more parts availability issue for the H in this day
*H2B would bring higher %VE due to valve sized and port (IMHO), comparing to same displacement with stroked B, surelly would bring more HP than the B if talking in same displacement
*H2B parts was lot of cheaper (here in my country) rather than B
BTW im not into a B fanatic or H fanatic things, since i also still running B for my all motor car.
Actually i have though b4 that the reason was only parts availability, no techie thing.
The answer that i hope was a tech things, since i need lot input to build my H.
Anyway the disussion still interesting, roll on...........
#69
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New York, ny, usa
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
if you want to make certain it will shift you can remove every other tooth, i have done this before. but i wouldnt recomend it for a daily driver [/QUOTE]
Can you tell me a little more aboutt his process? Or can you refer me to an article giving more explanation about this process? It seems very interesting. Also, I am a big fan of your hatch, and I would like to know where your shop is located.
Can you tell me a little more aboutt his process? Or can you refer me to an article giving more explanation about this process? It seems very interesting. Also, I am a big fan of your hatch, and I would like to know where your shop is located.
#70
#71
#72
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 3,396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
Damn... looks like I missed all of the fun.
Looks like my 2 favorite H guys, NAH2B and 2fastGSR... did the punching for the rest of us H guys!
Looks like my 2 favorite H guys, NAH2B and 2fastGSR... did the punching for the rest of us H guys!
Last edited by 2point6; 08-11-2009 at 04:02 PM.
#74
Re: Why Pro All Motor Guy Prefer B Series than a H22? (Just Curious)
i understand that but it shouldnt take a 1200 dollar clutch setup to make it shift. Not only that, a twin disk isnt something i would enjoy being that my car is also my DD....for now. A set of synchros properly spec'd to allow us to shift in the 8000+ rpm area would be prime. I'm going twin disk next, but thats beside the point :p
I daily with a twin, its ok thats about all i can say, however you can shift the hell out of it compared to my cheap single... get a exedy hyper single.. for the best of both
NAH2B what cams are you using?
#75
Honda-Tech Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tucson, AZ, USA
Posts: 3,396
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts