vinspe

hello, I have a 1992 honda accord lx, five speed

my problem is idle, at a stop it will idle up and down almost to cutting off and sometime it will cut off. A friend said it maybe the idle air control valve which i checked the price(200+) on and got a picture from napa, but I can not find it in the engine. do anyone know were to find the Idle air control valve??? please help

Brian

cpmike

does it bounce back and forth between like 500 and 2000 rpm?

adjusting the fast idle valve usually worked for me. its the cylinder on the driver side of the intake manifold, with the triangular cap with 3 screws. pull them out and take the cap off, and twist the outer white ring clockwise until its as tight as possible, and close it back up.

vinspe

Thank you for the responding,
It does not go back and forth between 500 and 2000 rpm, at a stop light it will be at 1000 rpm then go to amost RPM then go back up to 1000 RPM almost cutting off and sometimes will cut off. Sometime it will not bounce at all it will be normal idle

That is why I thought it might be the Idle Air Control Valve, but I can not find it, do you know were that part is located on the engine???

Thanks

92ehatch

IACV is in RED

FITV in in YELLOW

i would undo the two 12 mm bols on the IACV and spray some carb cleaner in the two holes on it until they are clean, see if that helps.

if not, try replacing the PCV valve.

Then i would open the cap on the FITV and CAREFULLY skrew the little yellow piece down snug, NOT TIGHT

hondadude

Check to be sure the engine is full of coolant and the block burped thru the 12mm bleed screw at the T-stat housing.
FITV can go looney tunes when the coolant is low

minotaur

Hello hondadude, vinspe, and others.

I happened upon your post and the preceding post by vinspe. Both lead me to a couple of questions because I recently replaced the radiator. First, what is an FITV (Fuel Injector Temperature Valve?) and what is its purpose in life?

I have a 93 Accord F22A1 auto that is giving me fits. The idle when warm fluctuates pretty steadily between about 500 and 2000. Generally it cranks right up, but for the past year or so it periodically refuses to start. The engine turns over, but it will not start. Its infrequent, but often enough to be a pain. Doesn't matter if the engine is hot or cold. I can drive it and park it, ten minutes later it may or may not start. In the mornings when cold it generally starts without fail, but occassionally refuses.

When it fails to start, I remove the key, come back later, and try again. It may start ten minutes later, or it may sit overnight prior to starting.

I pulled the codes and got the following: 1 and 2 (O2 sensor), 7 (Throttle Position sensor: never heard of that one), 8 (Top Dead center sensor: not familiar with that one either...), and 14 (Idle Air Control Valve).

I have been looking online for replacement parts and info (to make sure I have the mechanical ability to r&r the parts without resorting to a dealer). O2 sensor doesn't seem to be a big deal. The IACV seems pretty straightforward. I have seen info on trying to clean the IACV and I intend to give that a shot.

Unfortunately I'm cash-poor at the moment (as usual). I'm most concerned about the sporadic failure-to-start problem. I'm inclined to replace the IACV but I suspect it will solve the idle problem only, and that part isn't inexpensive. The TP sensor and TDC sensor I'm totally unfamiliar with, and would really appreciate it if someone here more knowledgeable than I can offer some insight as to what their functions are and whether or not they are related to the no-start issue. I am assuming the O2 sensor can wait.

Any assistance is truly appreciated.

minotaur

JimBlake

FITV = fast-idle thermo valve. It's job is to increase the idle speed when it's cold. (Notice how your engine idles high at first in winter?)

Throttle position sensor is just that. It sits on the throttlebody, opposite the cable drum. It measures the position of the throttle. Make sure the wiring connection is clean & tight with no loose wires. Can't buy a TPS, you have to buy a throttle body. But the 'rivets' holding it on are really screws. Cut a slot into them with a dremel, then you can use a junkyard TPS.

TDC sensor is one of the magnetic sensors down in your distributor. It helps tell the ECU where your engine is in it's rotation. Can't buy that either, you have to buy a distributor. So check to see whether it's a loose/dirty wiring problem. I don't think you can easily remove the sensor without breaking it, but I've never tried...

IACV might be sticky, so clean it out like you said.

Definitely, check to make sure there's no air pockets in the cooling system.

Also... vacuum leaks can cause a surging idle, too.

minotaur

Thanks Jim. I removed and cleaned the IACV per the instructions found on this site. Removed the air intake and and shot half a can of cleaner into the throttle body. Found a vaccum port near the top of the throttle body which is capped with a rubber thingy; assumed it is for testing vac: So I shot a load of cleaner through it too. Re-mounted the IACV, started a bit hard, but cranked up fine.

Immediately the idle started to cycle between 1100 - 1600 rpm. I capped the vaccum port w/ my finger and it stopped cycling, seemed to idle steadily, but high. Removed finger, and it cycled again.

So with the motor running I shot more cleaner into the throttle body, making sure to work the valve. Shot more cleaner into the vaccum port, then capped it with the rubber thingy.

Now it is back to cycling the rpm. I have not re-attached the breather tube, 'cause its hot in there, but will soon when the motor cools.

I guess I have a "bad" IACV.

Next I'll top off and burp the cooling system, in the hope something will change. Then I'll make sure all the wiring connections are clean and tight. Thanks for the tips, I wouldn't have been able to find where these parts live or their purpose without your explanation. Vacuum leaks I don't know how to begin looking for.

Any idea what is the liklihood the periodic no-start problem I'm experiencing is related to the IACV? Or possibly to the FITV, as I know there is air in the system?

Thanks again.

amckee

One thing at a time. First, your IACV is probably not bad. If you have removed it and cleaned it and the screen, then it is probably fine. Just because your idle is still fluctuating doesn't mean it's the cause.
1. Make sure the coolant is full and no air bubbles come out the vent on the thermostat housing. Open the vent with a 12mm while it is running to check.

2. Remove the top cover of the FITV. Inside you will see a little thimble surrounded by a donut. Make sure the donut is screwed down until it seats.

3. Check for vacuum leaks. Look for cracked vacuum lines. Listen for hissing. Run your hand around vacuum hoses and the intake while it is still cool and running and listen for your hand to change the pitch of the hiss. Make sure the intake gasket and TB gasket aren't leaking.

Any excess air that enters the motor can cause this idle surge. Vacuum leaks, IACV, FITV, EGR not seating when closed, bad PCV, throttle cable too tight, and idle screw out too far can all cause a high idle. When the idle exceeds ~1200 RPM with the engine warm and the throttle plate is closed, the ECU cuts off the fuel injectors. The idle falls below the threshold, the injectors cut back on and the whole cycle starts over again. I had a starting boost valve(accord) that was leaking through the diaphram that caused mine. Something like that can only be found with a vacuum pump/gauge. Anything that has a vacuum line running to it can cause this problem if it won't hold vacuum, not just the vacuum lines and gaskets. This includes EGR diaphragm, Boost valve diaphragm, cruise control, MAP, Intake bypass valves, Purge solenoids and others.

If you can't find the leak after checking these things listed above, check the idle screw. It's under the Vacuum lines on the left side of the Throttle Body. With the engine warm, you need to set the idle to between 450 and 550 with the IACV unplugged. Plug it back in and clear your ECU codes.

With regards to the engine not starting and all the other codes. They are not related to the idle fluctuation, so fix the idle first and clear those codes out. Then drive it for a while and see if any codes reappear.
If you are still getting a TDC code, that could be responsible for your problem.
You could, however, have a bad main relay with cracked solder joints that are intermittent. Don't jump to conclusions, and don't buy any parts unless you have proven through troubleshooting that it is bad. And fix that idle surge first.

minotaur

Mr Blake & Mr McKee: Thanks for the education and for keeping me focused. I have to ask what I know must be a silly question. Attached is a picture of a Honda motor I stole off the web (I stole the picture, not the motor). The part I’d like you to look at is circled in red between the air intake filter and the throttle body. There is a molded flange about an inch and a half in diameter where an air hose is supposed to be attached. You can see the hose clamp in the picture, but no hose.

My Honda is missing the same hose (and the clamp, too, darn it). What is the hose for and where in the world is the other end of that missing hose supposed to live? I have looked and looked but can’t figure it out. But I suspect I better put a hose on that motor to keep it from sucking unfiltered air. It might idle better too.

amckee

My 92 EX has the same shape to that portion of the intake but when you stick your finger up under there you realize that it's not a hole. Maybe the mold did double duty for another model.

minotaur

"...but when you stick your finger up under there you realize that it's not a hole."

Ooops. You're right: Mine, too. Sorry for wasting your time on that one.

Duane_in_Japan

do a search (recently) about an idle problem with my name on it, explains your options, not here in the accord forum but in h-t, search by my name.

accrdin

i dont know where the speed control sensor is on my 93 accord....anybody know??

JimBlake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by accrdin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i dont know where the speed control sensor is on my 93 accord....anybody know??
</TD></TR></TABLE>What are you looking for? The IACV that they're talking about above isn't a sensor. It's a valve.

It looks like it's #15 here for a '93 Accord LX 4-door auto-trans. Basically the same thing that's circled in red in the picture way up above.

jaymay13

I have a 92 Civic that had the same problem with intermittent starting. I changed the fuel pump relay, which is right behind the hood release latch, under the dash. It solved my starting problem.
Found one on ebay for under $40.

Kymechanic

when you had to replace the SAV how did you diagnose the problem and come to the that conclusion?

dmcland

cpmike,
my 92 honda does bounce between 900 - 2000 rpm and rather quickly.
It only does this after the engine is warm say 3 to 5 minutes.
Once it gear, the engine tends to idle a bit high - 1100 rpm

I have replaced the throttle control sensor and cleaned out the throttle body.

The only other things I can add is the idle was not adjusted by screw, but the mechanic adjust the cable

Also, I recently had to replace the TCM since the transmission was not shifting

let me know if you need more information, but I would like to get this resolved.

Funny thing is, it does not always do this, every once in a while it idles where it should.

thoughts and comments welcome

bradley152

Does anyone know where the canister purge solenoid is on a 98 honda accord lx thank you.

skilltpa

I had the same problem with my 91' Accord EX. If you don't have one...it's best you invest in a Haynes repair manual it will show you (with pictures) and tell you how to change it.
-- For all intense purposes though, if you're looking at the PGM-FI (should be marked) the IAC is located on the front right corner of the PGM-FI.

P.S. Go to a junk yard and you're sure to find one much less than a brand new one...I changed mine 3 years ago using one from a junk yard and it's still going strong!

jhunsake

I have this idle surge ONLY when in park. ONce it is shifted into gear the idle is fine.

It will cycle back and forth between 1000 RPM and 2000-3000 RPM. This is is a quick surge, stop, surge stop.

duct-tape

It can also be a cracked intake manifold gasket (vacum leak), it was a problem on two accords that ive worked on one was '91 the other '90
hope this helps

Hondaowner9

Can you be more specific on which gasket you are referring to? There are two gaskets in the manifold area. There is one that goes between the throttle body and the intake manifold. The second one is between the intake and the exhaust sides of the manifold.

craddock01

The starting problem is your fuel pump relay its inside the dash drivers side Honda produced these with a defect called a "Dry" socket on the board inside I removed mine years ago and used a magnifying glass found the bad solder joint on the board and resoldered it starting problems solved.And your better off to remove your IAC to clean it theres a screen in there that gets clogged abut an INCH wide spraying cleaner inside may just open it up a little only takes couple of minutes to do

pmrider

Hi- I am having the same surging problem, and sometimes it sits at high idle (1500rpm) and then settles even though its warm (1993 accord manuel trans). I checked my FITV and it is tight. When taking off the IACV to clean it, can I disconnect the hoses w/ out having to worry about fluids draining out or air getting into the system??

Also, where exactly do I go to open the valve to burp the coolent system?

Thanks