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Old 11-21-2007, 10:18 PM   #1
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Default Titanium Retainers

I'm about to buy some titanium retainers, but the seller doesn't know what brand they are. I don't want to be buying some knock off ****. Soooooo, do "they" sell cheap **** retainers on ebay? It's it worth it? probably not
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Old 11-22-2007, 05:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: Titanium Retainers (95dxsir2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95dxsir2
I'm about to buy some titanium retainers, but the seller doesn't know what brand they are. I don't want to be buying some knock off ****. Soooooo, do "they" sell cheap **** retainers on ebay? It's it worth it? probably not
I bought some "titanium" retainers on ebay, they weren't titanium. just some cheap *** stainless steel. Be sure you get what you pay for. Ended up getting some skunk2 retainers for about the same price.
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Old 11-22-2007, 06:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Titanium Retainers (Chiovnidca)

if you are unsure, dont buy. check your pm i may have a deal for you.
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Old 11-22-2007, 07:08 AM   #4
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Default Re: Titanium Retainers (boostedcivicsir)

how long do ti retainers usually last, my motors are race only and ive used the same set for 2 years now on 2 different motors but they havnt really ran all that much.
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Old 11-22-2007, 07:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: Titanium Retainers (Chiovnidca)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiovnidca
I bought some "titanium" retainers on ebay, they weren't titanium. just some cheap *** stainless steel. Be sure you get what you pay for. Ended up getting some skunk2 retainers for about the same price.
Click the image to open in full size.
thats what i was affraid of.
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Old 11-22-2007, 05:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Titanium Retainers (boostedcivicsir)

so how do i tell if they are titanium if i do buy them?
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Old 11-22-2007, 07:15 PM   #7
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Default Re: Titanium Retainers (95dxsir2)

just buy from a reputable company. Supertech, S2, there are lots of good deals out there on name brand retainers. I wouldn't cut corners on your valve train.
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Old 11-22-2007, 10:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: Titanium Retainers (Amped)

Do not cheap out on valvetrain parts.


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Old 11-23-2007, 03:14 AM   #9
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Default Re: Titanium Retainers (95dxsir2)

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Originally Posted by 95dxsir2
so how do i tell if they are titanium if i do buy them?
The specific gravity of titanium should be about 4.5.
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Old 11-23-2007, 08:25 AM   #10
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Default

We have a car in our shop now for repair, a ti retainer failed at 20-25k miles, dropped a valve destroying the piston, sleeve, and combustion chamber in the head. So yea it destroyed the whole engine. TI retainers are a race only product and need to be inspected from time to time and its not smart to install them in a daily dd car if you don't have intentions of ripping it all apart from time to time.

Just my experience with them, there are other materials out there that are more suited towards daily driven cars. Also most people would never know the difference between ti, steel, alum ect retainers.

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Old 11-23-2007, 08:28 AM   #11
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Default Re: (Boosted_B_Series)

Click the image to open in full size.

You should see the carnage inside the engine, but here you can see were the skirt snapped off
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: (Boosted_B_Series)

What brand were they?
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:22 PM   #13
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Default Re: (Chiovnidca)

good steel retainers and good springs will be sufficient so there will never be reason to question the condition of the retainer. it not that big of a difference to go titanium. unless you are ***** out race car i would just get good springs and forget about it.
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: (agrn93ls)

Quote:
Originally Posted by agrn93ls
good steel retainers and good springs will be sufficient so there will never be reason to question the condition of the retainer. it not that big of a difference to go titanium. unless you are ***** out race car i would just get good springs and forget about it.
well who makes steel retainers or would that just be OEM?
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: (SPOOLINmatt)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPOOLINmatt

well who makes steel retainers or would that just be OEM?
OEM and i saw stell on either Brian Crower's web site or Rocket's website i dont remember which. it wouldnt be hard to find though
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Old 11-23-2007, 02:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: (agrn93ls)

normally if the seller cant remember the brand name, than they are junk.

whens the last time u forgot that the part u were selling was skunk2 or something.Ill tell u when, when they arent skunk2. Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11-24-2007, 07:12 AM   #17
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Default Re: (93supercoupe)

Click the image to open in full size. the seller is not answering my questions anymore, i've decided on buying some from mike, great deal on em too.
I'm planning for 300 plus to the wheels @ high boost. dual stage controller with water/meth injection. not planning on hitting high boost to much Click the image to open in full size.. already bought some type-r dual valve springs...intake & exhaust. thanks for the replies.
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Old 11-24-2007, 07:31 AM   #18
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Default Re: (agrn93ls)

brian crower makes steel retainers. i have an ls with high lift cams, and my only option is titanium, so that's what i have.

any idea what brand retainers were in that motor?
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Old 11-25-2007, 12:04 PM   #19
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skunk2s I have the receipt
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Old 11-25-2007, 04:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: (Boosted_B_Series)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted_B_Series
skunk2s I have the receipt
When were they purchased ?
(date)
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:12 PM   #21
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Over 2.5 years ago. I'll have to double check at the shop. There is a book that went with this engine build. It honestly may have been close to 4 years ago. A local shop charged this guy almost 9k, no one could believe it. He didn't drive it much, stored it every winter.
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:59 PM   #22
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Default Re: (Boosted_B_Series)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted_B_Series
Over 2.5 years ago. I'll have to double check at the shop. There is a book that went with this engine build. It honestly may have been close to 4 years ago. A local shop charged this guy almost 9k, no one could believe it. He didn't drive it much, stored it every winter.
I am sure a lot more r&d has been put into Skunk2's Retainers since his were produced Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:59 PM   #23
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Default Re: (Boosted_B_Series)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boosted_B_Series
We have a car in our shop now for repair, a ti retainer failed at 20-25k miles, dropped a valve destroying the piston, sleeve, and combustion chamber in the head. So yea it destroyed the whole engine. TI retainers are a race only product and need to be inspected from time to time and its not smart to install them in a daily dd car if you don't have intentions of ripping it all apart from time to time.
Just my experience with them, there are other materials out there that are more suited towards daily driven cars. Also most people would never know the difference between ti, steel, alum ect retainers.

dK
Refering to the bold portion.

While that may be true for most titanium retainers on the market but certainly not all of them. Titanium is a complex alloy and very process sensative. Also there are many different grades of titanium each having unique charactersistics and strengths.

In the past 3 years i have studied titanium extensively and the strength of titanium alloys can vary from 90,000 psi to over 240,000 psi depending on the grade or type of alloy used. For comparison the strongest aluminum alloy (7075-T6) is only about 83,000 psi UTS (ultimate tensile strength).

A few of the common grades are Grade 2, ELI, and Grade 5.

Grade 2 and ELI are about the same strength wise 110,000 PSI. they are generally an easier to machine but weaker/softer material. Also this material has faster gauling.

Grade 5 (hence the name) is about 120,000 psi and 140,000 psi in anealed condition. Its more difficult to machine and the cutter speeds have to be slowed down also the cutters dont last as long the harder the material gets. This material also has a better resistance to gauling.

The grade 2 alloy is less expensive than a grade 5 alloy as well.

Im not here to bash on the competiton, but we have found, after looking at most of the titanium retainers on the market that most companies use grade 2. A few companies use grade 5, not many. The grade 2 titanium is just too soft for making retainers out of if you want any sort of longevity. Its easy to spot the stuff made out of less expensive grade 2 because it generally fails like in the pics above.

Omnipower starts with a certified grade 5 6AL-4V alloy then we take it and put it through a 9 hour multi staged heat treatment. That heat treatment brings the tensile strength up to about 165,000-170,000 psi. The HRC (rockwell scale C) hardness is about 36-37 vs 20-25 for lower grades of titanium. The complex heat treatment and additional time required for machining add to the cost of production, but the end result is a bullet proof retainer.

Some of the benefits of Omnipower retainers over other brands.
-Superior strength
-Extremely wear and gaul resistant vs lower titanium grades.
-50% lighter than OEM retainers (6.9 grams)
-can be used for daily driving, road racing, drag racing and all other forms of motorsports.
-can be used with high pressure springs for forced induction applications where increased spring pressure is needed for applications that combine high boost,high rpm, and aggressive cam profiles.
-.050 inch (1.25mm) added seal to retainer clearance for high lift cams


For comparison you can see the difference in color between the heat treated bar and a finished product. The bar after heat treatment has a purple tint to it vs the machined axle which is silver.

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

This is one of our titanium bolts made from the same material we use for retainers and axles. We bent it as far as we could in a vice with a 3 foot pipe well over 45 degrees without breaking.

Click the image to open in full size.




Modified by omniman at 12:34 AM 11/27/2007
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:53 PM   #24
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Default Re:

i have been running crower Ti retainers on my y8 with crower stage 2 street/strip cam, for 50,000+ miles
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