soccrplayrgtp

Went on a raod trip this last weekend and this car, 1990 integra base model, didnt start when I returned to the shitty weather of Milwaukee, WI. The next day it started right up , sunny and 60. Then two other days slip up over a week didnt start only on the two rainy days we had. Ignition? Is there a common problem with these cars like this? please let me know ASAP
its my ride to work
Travis the newB

4crx4me

When you turn the key to the ON position do you hear a faint hum, then a faint click?
If not you need to fix your maim PGMFI relay

Jimmy

iTrader: (5)

If your fuel pump isn't priming then its your PGM-FI main relay.

It's very common for honda's & acura's to do this when its hot.

Heres my write up on how to fix it:
https://honda-tech.com/zerothre...36514

Goodluck bro!

HONDRETTI

MY TEG DOES THE SAME THING- USUALLY AT THE SAME PUMP AT THE SAME GAS STATION. FUNNY THING IS IF I RE-OPEN THE GAS LID TO RELEASE PRESSURE IT STARTS RIGHT UP...AGREE ITS THE FUEL PUMP/INJECTION... TRY REVVING WHEN TURNING IGNITION TO FEED SOME FUEL TO THE SPARK

kablamo

check (very, VERY closely) your distributor cap and ignition wires. a tiny crack in either will result in arcing, which could explain your problem.

changing them regardless might be a good idea, as cracks may be hard to see, and it can be hard to diagnose these problems. i suggest you look at the fuel supply first though, like the other guys are saying.

JimBlake

I imagine fuel problems wouldn't change with humidity. That's why I'd check distributor cap & wires for arcing.

Let the engine get completely cold, wait until after dark. Turn off ALL the lights, start the engine, look for arcing. I'll be a dull blue glow around a wire or at the cap. Maybe spray water from a windex bottle to make it show up brighter.

Sometimes even after you see the arcing, you won't be able to find the crack.

PlastikOwl

if it's the PGMFI relay, it typically won't start when it's hot, but should be fine in the cold.

My guess would be to check what everyone said above, but one thing people commonly overlook is the ignition switch itself, behind the lock cylinder. They have a little spring in there that holds all the metal contacts in the correct places, and it tends to break now and then and just screws with everything. Do all the accessory lights come on ok? What if you try to start it and ease the key back enough to where the starter stops whining?

monkhommey

i am having the same type of problem from my 90 integra ls... its my daily driver and when i start it, it will sometimes dies right away. it usually happens mid day when i drive it a short while , stop, then try to start it back up.. i have tried waiting to hear the fuel pump stop priming.. this seems to help a little but not always. it has also died shortly after starting.. within a minute or two from starting. the problem is getting more persistant and servere.. usually the car will start within a few more tries but today it would start for a while and when it did the S3 gear light started blinking and the car stayed in 3rd gear i believe...(its an auto). however i got home, shut the car off and started it back just fine and it went into drive fine also. tonight i will check the dist.. and wires however im not a honda guy really so could someone explain to me what the PGMI relay is and where it is located? any other advise would be great also. thanx

JimBlake

Hondas typically have a combination relay (actually a couple relays together in the same case), that gives power to the fuel pump, injectors, & ECU. People call it the main relay & it's located above the driver's kick panel. Like maybe 10" above the hood-release lever.

TurboBumblBee

would a main relay thats going bad, also cause some hesitation while driving the car?? im attempting to diagnose a problem for a friend of mine and her car is acting really weird sometimes w/ hesistion and starting it.. the car didnt use to do this at all.. but it is now that its getting hotter.. she says that car has more problems when its hot and humid...

we have already gone through and replaced the plugs, wires, cap, rotor, fuel filter, switched out the map sensor, checked for air in the coolant, switched out iacv, switched out chipped ecu for stock ecu and its still doing it.. what else can we check?? maybe the dist coil? ignitor? fuel pump? thanks for the ideas and help..

JimBlake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboBumblBee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would a main relay thats going bad, also cause some hesitation while driving the car??</TD></TR></TABLE>I don't think so, but ???? The bad main relay would cause the fuel pump to stop running. You don't hear people saying it does this for a moment & comes back on. If you had a fuel pressure gauge you'd know for sure.

Coil or ignitor? You can check the coil with an ohm-meter, but that's not absolute. Sometimes bad coils test good with a simple ohm-meter. Does the tachometer drop out for a moment when this happens?

Do you get any check-engine lights? If so, read the error code(s).

TurboBumblBee

I don't think so, but ???? The bad main relay would cause the fuel pump to stop running. You don't hear people saying it does this for a moment & comes back on. If you had a fuel pressure gauge you'd know for sure.

it does have some trouble starting after its been sitting for a while over night and when she goes to work in the afternoon, thats why i thought maybe main relay


Coil or ignitor? You can check the coil with an ohm-meter, but that's not absolute. Sometimes bad coils test good with a simple ohm-meter. Does the tachometer drop out for a moment when this happens?

i have not noticed this before or not.. but it might i will check into it.. the car just kinda dies and loses power then comes back.. its very slight hesitation but its noticeable. IF a coil is going bad wouldnt it throw a CEL light??

Do you get any check-engine lights? If so, read the error code(s).


nope no check engine lights at all, nothing stored in the ecu either

JimBlake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboBumblBee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... IF a coil is going bad wouldnt it throw a CEL light??</TD></TR></TABLE>Not directly. The ECU can only know about this if it detects misfiring or poor control over mixture (O2 sensor).

TurboBumblBee

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JimBlake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not directly. The ECU can only know about this if it detects misfiring or poor control over mixture (O2 sensor).</TD></TR></TABLE>

an obd1 p28 ecu does not look for misfires.. so your saying the only way the ecu would know if a coil is going bad would be by an bad o2 sensor reading?? that really doesnt make much sense to me.. is there anything else i can go over and check to get this car running top knotch again?

JimBlake

Right, OBD-1 has no CKF sensor to measure the crank speed fluctuation from a misfire. But even an OBD-2 ECU doesn't know whether this is caused by a bad spark vs. a fouled injector or a burned valve.

But a misfire gives you unburned fuel along with unused O2. The O2 sensor reads high O2; ECU (incorrectly) thinks it's lean; tries to adjust, overcompensates, etc... If it goes on for long enough, bad enough; the ECU can't keep the O2 sensor happy, but can't figure out why, so it throws code 43.

If your CKP, TDC, or CYP sensors in the distributor were bad, you'd see codes for them. Also, I guess code 15 would be if the ignitor isn't giving a good ignition signal to the ECU?? But if the coil itself was going bad, the ECU doesn't have any direct way to know about it.

TurboBumblBee

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JimBlake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If your CKP, TDC, or CYP sensors in the distributor were bad, you'd see codes for them. Also, I guess code 15 would be if the ignitor isn't giving a good ignition signal to the ECU?? But if the coil itself was going bad, the ECU doesn't have any direct way to know about it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

ive heard alot of people suggest to replace the coild and ignitor at the same time cause they can cause each other to go bad.. should i go this route? a friend has a spare distributor w/ a coil but i dont know about the ignitor.. i would be pissed if bought these two parts and it didnt fix the problem

sleepinbeauTEG

main fuel relay

vjace

i had the same exact problems on my camaro and it was due to flooding and the reason for that was not a hot enough spark so i changed my spark plug and it still did it and then i changed my coil which was the problem.
i would check your spark plugs see if there soaked in gas then you know you need new plugs and coil.
i hop i helped

TurboBumblBee

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by vjace &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
i would check your spark plugs see if there soaked in gas then you know you need new plugs and coil.
i hop i helped

</TD></TR></TABLE>

so your saying the extra gas that isnt igniting is causing the car to stall out? and the gas isnt igniting because the coil is going bad? what if the car was running really rich? and there is not evap purge canister on the car now.. is the evap purge needed? im still having issues w/ this car and i would like to get it fixed asap.. thanks

JimBlake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboBumblBee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">... a friend has a spare distributor w/ a coil but i dont know about the ignitor...</TD></TR></TABLE>Did you borrow this & try it?

Otherwise, you can check other wires to/from the ignition. The ignitor & coil both get battery voltage; maybe that comes from the main relay? There's a signal from the ECU to the ignitor, telling it when to fire. Do you have a wiring diagram for '90? (I don't)

The EVAP system is for emmissions. I don't think it'll prevent it from starting.

But if your plugs got real wet with gasoline, maybe they aren't firing properly any more? That happened to me once, the plugs looked nice & clean after I dried them out. But they wouldn't fire...

Deep

It should be your distributer thats causing that, sometimes when their on their way out moisture can get in and mess with it. My old Teg used to do that, I dought its one of your relays although that did happen to my old *** accord and that got it runing again, whatever you do go cheap first, trouble shoot from the simple/cheap parts first than when you have no choice you go for the big stuff like fuelpump, by the way I got a 2001GSR fuel pump $50 dav_680@hotmail.com

DAsix

the same exact thing use to happen to my 91 RS. I replaced the distro cap and now its gone. I swear it would rain and the next day the car wouldnt start.