DJone850

where can i find a racing crank pulley for a d16a6 , i whant one that drives just the alt. belt and thats all ..

ExospeedAMcrx

We are distrbuting one for the B-series for now and the H, D-series and mazda ones will be available beginning of next year.

this is how it looks like.
This is 1 of only 3 other brands that are SFI approved and are actually worth having on a race in my opinion.




Modified by exospeedAMcrx at 7:44 PM 12/14/2003

ExospeedAMcrx

Keep in mind other "inexpensive pulleys" are made out of cheaper material and are not SFI approved

DJone850

but i still need a D series crank pulley , so no one makes a race pulley for D-series motors that drive only the alt.belt ???

SOUNDEFFECTS

So what does it mean by SFI approved? Does it go through some kind of tests? Does it still carry a harmonic balancer of some sort? Are the timing marks perfect?

StyleTEG

I would worry most about having a harmonic balancer/pulse dampener.

Doesn't look like those do from the pictures.

ExospeedAMcrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by StyleTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would worry most about having a harmonic balancer/pulse dampener.

Doesn't look like those do from the pictures.</TD></TR></TABLE>
The dampner/balancer is not necessary. Many will say its totally necesarry, because for the older V8s, etc.. its been known to be needed. but for the newer V8s and the inline 4 honda/acura applications. the complete Assmebly combination of the flywheel, crank and pulley design creates the balancing effect already.

SFI is a certification process that many high end parts have to go through. The inexpensive pulleys you see on the market today are mostly made with 6061 aluminum. the SFI certification requires the higher grade aluminum 7075 for it to pass spec and also are spun to 12,500 RPM for a period of time to pass spec.

SOUNDEFFECTS

So its is balanced and safe up to 12,500rpm? Sounds like a nice product, how much?

StyleTEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The dampner/balancer is not necessary. Many will say its totally necesarry, because for the older V8s, etc.. its been known to be needed. but for the newer V8s and the inline 4 honda/acura applications. the complete Assmebly combination of the flywheel, crank and pulley design creates the balancing effect already.
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It is necessary. Balancing the rotational assembly does not elminate harmonic resonate waves.

ExospeedAMcrx

The design of the pulley itself is also part of the balancing effect.
does not require a "dampener"

StyleTEG

I don't buy it, how do they design the pulley to dampen harmonic resonate waves?

How come they can do it, yet all the other companies are still using rubber dampeners?

ExospeedAMcrx

Mugen, and the Honda OEM CTR crank pulley arent dampened as well.

I dont believe the Unorthodox or the AEM are either.

markdman

Can you provide a url or phone number to the offices that do this SFI certification?

ExospeedAMcrx

http://www.sfifoundation.com/

http://www.sfifoundation.com/manuf.html
The Certification for Pulleys are Spec 18.1
Meets SFI spec for NHRA requirements.


Sanctioning Bodies that follow the SFI foundation specs.
http://www.sfifoundation.com/sancbody.html

StyleTEG

Mugen and AEM don't make a crank pulley.

The CTR is built much differently than the d and b series we get around here.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'll post a more complete rendition of this on the too site shortly, but let me begin by saying that it's good to be back and I'm only here to expressly address some questions that need some "good" answers.

I am not here to provide schedules or any information regarding the blower program. The topic is that of aftermarket crank pulleys. Let me begin by saying that we have always called the pulley on the accessory drive end on the Honda cranks Harmonic Balancers. People never seemed to understand what we were talking about and so the word "pulley" was frequently used to avoid confusion. If you look carefully at a Honda "pulley", you'll find that it's not a single piece of metal. Typically, there's a nodular iron or steel hub and another "ring" of iron or steel surrounding it containing the belt grooves.

The two parts are joined by a rubber layer, which is highly compressed and sandwiched between them. Why rubber? If you notice, many four cylinder engines over the years have used counter rotating shafts to help make the engine "feel" smoother. Reciprocating internal combustion engines and especially in-line four cylinder versions, all produce shock pulses, which are very apparent to the occupants of the car. Every engine produces a shock pulse each time an individual cylinder fires. So, in the case of the four cylinder variety, there are four large individual pulses for each 720 degrees of crank rotation.

Each time there's a pulse, it causes the internal components to do a rapid acceleration-deceleration event. When you consider the mass of all the internal components and visualize all these parts stopping and starting during their reciprocating and rotating motions, the additional stress "spikes" tend to make it all the more reason for one to wonder how any of it can work for any length of time. The harmonic balancer is made with the rubber coupling so that, when the individual "spikes" occur, the inner portion may move with the crank, but the rubber connected outer ring's mass helps prevent the hub and crank from going as far or as fast during the spikes or pulses. Remember that the outer part had considerable mass, so it tends to want to stay in motion at the speed that it's traveling and that's why it can prevent excessive harsh motion by the crank and other internal parts.

To put it simply, the harmonic balancer is a shock absorber for the engine and thus prevents the individual pulses from destroying everything in the engine. A quick bit of history; Back in the late '70's, all the Pro Stock engines had been reduced in displacement to allow the cars to weigh less. At that time the vehicle weight was based on engine "type" and total displacement. Typically, the engines were in the 330 cubic inch range and running 10,000 to 11,000 rpm was normal, especially in high gear at the traps. There began to be a lot of engines that were "exploding" their harmonic balancers on the big end. Aside from cutting the steering in half and blowing the front tires, large hunks were also finding their way into the grandstands and there were numerous injuries, many of which ended in death. NHRA immediately mandated that solid "balancers" were to be used from that point on. Keep in mind that a balancer can't be solid and function properly, but the rules were the rules. Moroso and a couple other companies who were tight with NHRA began making aluminum billet "balancers" immediately and everyone bought them so they'd be legal to race. All of a sudden, racers were getting only 10 passes from their crankshafts, which had previously lasted an entire season. Initially, most people thought the cranks were "bad", but after destroying engine after engine, a few knowledgeable engine people figured out where the problem actually was coming from and several companies that were capable of making functioning harmonic balancers sprang up over night.

They are all still in the business to this day and their units are actually much better than the factory units of years before, as they are made from premium materials and optimized for high rpm applications. With this short bit of history finished, I'll begin to wind it up by stating what we do with the Honda engines. If the balancer has more belt grooves than the application needs, i.e. the power steering pulley, we machine it off. When it comes to the the pulleys that are actually a part of the outer portion of the balancer, we leave them intact. This procedure will not lighten the unbalanced hub substantialy, but the outer balancer ring will keep all its mass and function correctly. I also need to say that a large driven mass such as a blower or alternator, can have a slight dampening effect, but to actually work properly, the belt connecting the components to the crank would need to be 4" to 5" wide and the belt tension would be so great that it would wear out the number 1 main bearing as well as the bearings of the the driven parts in short order. It's especially important to keep the balancer "as is", if you're running an aluminum flywheel. The reduction in flywheel mass can also increase the pulsation shock strength and a higher level of vibration will immediately be observable. So if you lighten the flywheel,it's absolutely more necessary than ever to maintain the mass or the harmonic balancer. I realize that there's a lot of hype out there where manufacturers are promising this and that. The oversize crank pulleys can drive other geared or belted components faster due to the diameter ratio increase, but if you're deleting the balancer in the process, the short and long term side effects are going to hinge on your decisions. Larger diameter pulleys for the alternator, power steering and any other belt driven accessory are good ways to slow the speeds and drag of the those components, but when doing a large diameter crank pulley, the larger pulleys should actually be designed to fit "over" the stock balancer. Perhaps, someone will begin to make some good quality "functional" balancers some day, but until they do, you need to proceed carefully, as some good looks and minimal power gains can be off set by a ruined engine. I'm sure that there will be some fall out regarding what I'm saying here and to that effect I need to remind everyone that we do not manufacture hubs, big pulleys, or harmonic balancers for Hondas and none of what I've said is the least bit politically motivated.

And yes, any engine with a non-functional hub or balancer can ruin the crank driven oil pump and a whole lot more.
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XSSIVE

i'd give the guys over at http://www.inlinefour.com a call...they convert factory b series crank pullies into "race" pullies by having the extra 2 belt parts machined off and the stock rubber dampner is left in tact and the unit is ballanced. i will be adding one to my teg since i have no A/C or PS now anyway. give them a call and see if they can help with a D-Series.

edit... here ya go look at this first...the Inline Four N1 Enduro pulley http://www.inlinefour.com/infourn1encr.html

-Mike

busychild

so the exospeed crank pulleys do not carry a HB and the option of machining the stock pulley, and balancing is a better option? revive this post.

StyleTEG

Yes, machining and balancing the stock pulley is the best option for most people right now. That or the ATI dampener. (unsure of the cost).

Both are about 3lbs compaired to the stock 7-8lb.

The fluidyne weighs more than stock, but does more harmonic dampening.

dgonzals

i want to stay posted on this...i will need this.....in little bit...