dglassmyer

1996 accord 2.2 non-vtec
I realize there has been a lot of discussion regarding issues with engine misfire codes and the troubleshooting that goes into tracking down the problem, however I couldn't find anything that brings my crappy symptoms into play so here we go.
I am having a seemingly random shutdown of cylinder number 3 while driving, I can be going down the road driving perfect and all of a sudden that cylinder shuts down and the car is running like crap.
Sometimes that cylinder will just start firing again and my car will run peachy.
I have read all the common fixes and have replaced the plugs, rotor, cap, plug wires and intake manifold gasket (for a seperate issue).
What I want to know is what does the fact that the cylinder will just start firing and then stop, and then start again tell me.
I am thinking the valves should be adjusted properly being that if they werent it would never run right.
Am I right in my thinking here?
What could be the issue I'm not seeing, any good advise would be great.

dglassmyer

Any ideas, anyone?

justinsbg

So how exactly do you know its #3 cylinder not producing? You stated above that you have several mis-fire codes for different cylinders along with a p1300 random mis-fire code. Is that still true? Just from reading your post it sounds like you could possibly have clogged EGR ports. Let me know the information I asked you.

dglassmyer

The first time the rough running condition started I was only getting a cylinder number 3 misfire code, I pulled over and pulled the plug wire to see if I was getting spark to that plug, well when I pulled the plug wire the engines rpm didn't drop so it was clear at that point the cylinder was dead.
At this point it could be cylinder 1 or 3 failing as im getting multiple codes for those cylinders as well, oh and I was getting spark to cylinder 3 when it konked out, I hope this helps and thanks for responding.

justinsbg

Well the fact that the rpm's. didn't change when you pulled the plug wire at idle would rule out clogged egr ports. Is the idle rougher than usual? You've replaced spark plugs so that should be ruled out. The initial coding of the #3 cylinder should rule out the ignition coil and icm. I would look into the fuel system. Use a long screwdriver and put the tip to the base of each injector where it mates to the intake and put the handle end to your ear. See if there is a difference in the way each of the pintles sound. The best way to test injectors is with a DSO (digital storage oscilliscope) but most diy'ers don't have that type of equipment. I had a 1998 civic just a couple weeks ago that had similar problems and I eneded up pulling the fuel rail off and finding rusty gas inside the injector rail and also in the injector filter screens.

dglassmyer

So what you are saying is clogged egr ports wouldn't cause cylinders to fail randomly? And yes when the number three cylinder failed it was obviously idling rough as it was only running on three cylinders, however when it does fire properly my idle is perfect, its an all or nothing affair with the running condition, im not sure if that's what you wanted to know.
I will look into the fuel injectors and rail tomorrow and let you know what I find, I might as well check the ports with the injectors out, thanks again

slomofo

iTrader: (1)

Possible injector wiring issue which is a pretty common problem on 94-97 Accords. Whip out an ohm meter and check resistance between each injector wire and their corresponding wire at the injector resistor box. If all are good, then check the resistance between the other injector wire and their corresponding wire at the ECU. If any wire pulls more than 0.00 ohms of resistance, then you need to track down where the wire is loose/corroded/damaged/open.

If all of them ohm out good, then I don't know your problem.

dglassmyer

Ok I just got my fuel rail, injectors and egr ports removed and everything in there is chock filled with carbon buildup, I can't even see through the egr ports into the manifold and the tips of my injectors look like they're covered in chocolate pudding, the injector screens look fairly clean though, I've gotta get this cleaned up

justinsbg

Clogged EGR ports will not cause the cylinders to randomly mis-fire at idle. The EGR system doesn't operate until the car is in gear and certain other criteria is met(won't get into all the details). I was asking you if the car has a rough idle all the time. I'm pretty certain your car was running rough when you had the cylinder down. If the deposits are as bad as you say, you may have some carbon getting loose and intermittently preventing a valve(s) from sealing. Let me know what happens with that. That's good you didn't find any rust or rust colored gas, that can get aggrivating and expensive.

dglassmyer

As long as all cylinders are firing the engine idles perfectly.
Ok I just got everything put back together and timing set to 18 degrees BTDC
initially everything is running great, even quieter at idle and no missing whatsoever.
All cylinders are firing and she even feels a little peppier with the dirt out.
I am hopeful the carbon was causing the issues but only time will tell, ill keep you updated on the situation.
Thanks again Justin

justinsbg

No problem. I hope everything works out. Keep an eye on the injector rail for leaks. I usually replace the upper o-rings that seal the injector in the rail. The bigger o-ring that seals it in the intake doesn't usually cause any problems, but the uppers are common for not sealing off when disturbed. You definitely don't want those things to spring a leak being right near ignition parts. I've seen a guy set a car on fire after he removed the fuel rail and pinched an o-ring putting it back on. One of the plug wires was leaking and arced onto the fuel and.....caboom! Talk soon.

Greg5150

Ok, here is something you should look at - although it is sort of a long shot. Most Honda fuel injectors have a tiny micro-basket filter that is installed in the top of the injector. I had a situation where one of these filters was clogged so bad it caused a fuel starvation condition. The filters should pull easily out of the top of the injector. Here is a picture where you can see what they look like: http://www.ecrater.com/p/8968625/hon...-filters-micro

Inspect them - clean or replace them if necessary.

justinsbg

Those are the injector filters I was talking about. Each injector has a little filter on top as you say. Very fine screen-]q45AGJ=956

justinsbg

Those are the injector filters I was talking about. Each injector has a little filter on top as you say. Very fine screen and is easily clogged by rust. That's the number 1 cause I see of injector problems, and if there is rust in the rail there's rust in the tank. Thanks for the affirmation @Greg5150. Also replace the inline fuel filter when dealing with a rusty tank. That stuff causes so many problems.

dglassmyer

I did inspect the small screen inserts on the injectors while I had them out, they were clean as was the fuel rail itself, the issues seemed to all be downstream of the egr port passages in the manifold.
Justin, you were darn near prophetic in your warning about the upper seals failing, I had just stopped to air up my tires and noticed the #1 injector upper seal had failed in the rail and was spraying fuel everywhere!!
I was fortunate to have caught it before I drove more than a mile or this would be a much different post.
A great autozone employee couldn't find the o ring I needed and actually pulled it off the one injector he had in stock for my car and didn't even charge me.
There seems to be a lot of good will and luck going on with this repair.
With the new o ring in all is well and I haven't had any drivability issues in 80 miles so hopefully this is put to rest.
Thanks,
Danny

mad matt

I was having similar problem with #3 random misfire on 96 accord v6.Replaced plugs,swapped #1 and #3 plug wires but miss stayed on #3.Tested wiring to injectors,all good.Pulled the fuel rails and injectors.Bench tested good operation and flow,flushed and reinstalled.Replaced cap and rotor.#3 is on bottom so the small oil leak from distributor must have left a film on the connection.As I rejoiced in my success I spotted a fuel leak.I pulled the fuel rail and found I am missing the screen filter on the leaking injector.Any ideas on where to locate a replacement?

242sgpaccord

I have recently started experiencing an issue with my 96' Accord Lx 4-cyclinder 5 speed manual transmission and when i hooked up the the code checker it gave me the mis fire error code. The exact problem I am having is when I shift from gear to gear and I get over 3 rpms the car starts to stall as if it is clogged or something and jerks until I get under 3 rpms. It is funny because I drove over 300 miles today and no issue as long as did not go over 3 rpms. I got a word of advice that my distributor was is going bad but would like to know if anyone has any other suggestions.

mad matt

are you getting a random misfire or a certain cylinder.I would start with ignitions system if you get specific cyle misfire. If you get no lean code you should be able to rule out fuel delivery.Is this a v tech motor?valve timing advances with RPM on v tech.If non v tech random misfire I would pull and inspect the plugs and run a compression test.

rsaintlouis

The "source" of the misfire problem could be the fuel filter. Had a similar problem like this and realized it was the fuel filter when I move it out of the way to replace a rear brake line. The fuel filter was suspect since it was rattling inside.