GOOCH-JDM-ITR

I recently installed my JRSC into a JDM-B18C w/ an LHT after cooler/heat exchanger.
Pics below. I'm having some issues I would like to wrinkle out before the tune (will post dyno in August) and had some interesting install pics to share.

Here are the majority of parts that will be going in:
**(did not use 3 bar sensor, Missing link,hobbs switch, FMU, T/B any belts or hoses in the pic)


And the car its going into:




1998 Integra GSR w/ a JDM B18c swap (1996 ITR)
-DC Sports 4-2-1 header (flat black)
-AEM 3" intake (short ram)
-Thermal 2.25" stainless cat-back exhaust
-Open Cat
-JRSC (rebuilt/slight port by Stiegemeier) w/ 4" JR pulley
-LHT after-cooler w/ race heat exchanger
-MVM stepper pulley (should be around 9psi)
-OEM windshield washer tank re-purposed as reservoir
-Edelbrock Type R 65MM throttle body
-Walboro 255lph fuel pump
-Rebuild-able steel mesh fuel filter
-STR fuel rail
-B&M fuel pressure riser
-Skunk 2 adjustable cam gears w/ gates timing belt
-Power steering bypass
-No A/C (both fans run simultaneously-via temp or AC button)
-Clutch Masters stage 3 sprung clutch
-Fidanza lightened flywheel

I have nearly everything installed except for the Hondata/Spark plugs/ and injectors.
Car started up right away and sounds good until it gets warm at which point it enters erratic idle mode. ****(JRSC bypass valve is zip-tied open)****
Here are the issues I am currently trying to work out:

1- erratic idle. Car starts fine, runs a constant 2000 rpm and 17(g's?) vacuum until warmish, then it enters erratic mode, swinging from 1250-2400 rpm in a constant manor. (had same issue before timing belt/JRSC install-cleaned IACV/flushed cooling system, drained coolant, added new water pump, still erratic)

2- white smoke out of exhaust (only sometimes), with revving car to 4000rpm

3-sticky throttle body issue (had this before the JRSC install), throttle body has a tough time returning to idle after gas pedal is depressed. Requires pushing on the T/B rotor to return to idle

4-funny noise coming from cam gears/timing belt (timing is still on,and bolts have been double checked for tightness) Is it normal to hear a different noise with the adjustable cam gears vs the OEM solid units? Could this be the belt stretching? It sounds to have gotten quieter in time, maybe its a break-in issue.
video below

5. also to note with the erratic idle the exhaust temperature fluctuates rapidly. As the engine revs the exhaust is hot, and when it drops down it goes to cool. Not sure if that's normal or pointing to any problems.

6. B&M short shifter rattle. After years of this annoyance and many attempted fixes/rebuilds, I think I may have found a solution. If not I did find a way to take out any traces of slop. Will post details in a later post.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SE3P...ature=youtu.be


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djNnG...ature=youtu.be


I intend to try and alleviate the problem with the sticky throttle body by checking the rotor for clearance, I will also do a compression check and post results before dyno.

NOT INSTALLED YET
Hondata s300
INJECTORS???? -looking for injectors (leaning towards ID1000cc in case I need more spray down the road) BUT your suggestions please!
TUNE-appointment made now rushing to fix any issues,
thank you in advanced for any help you may give me.

MRGRIM

iTrader: (1)

things i would look at
vacuum leak
TPS set correct
MAP in correct location
cam gears and timming recheck
"cam gear noise" check to see if rear plastic cover is rubbing on gears
re injectors you dont realy need to go that big unless your thinking of using E85
Im using 550 and about to go 14psi
exhaust temp going up normaly means going lean
have you got a wideband ?

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

well aside from my concern with that engine rapping, sounds like a low coolant issue and the idle control motor is searching. Check coolant level and make sure its bled properly

MRGRIM

iTrader: (1)

I noticed you didnt mention Spark plugs
NGK BKR7EIX but dont get the -11 gap is way to big

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

You have to regap the plugs reguardless

Veris

I believe Grim is suggesting that re-gaping plugs with a closer initial gap results in more accurate gap. ie the electrode tip isn't the only part properly gaped.

Having gapped both plugs I'd lean to a plug which starts off close to the gap I want. Getting a good gap is much easier.

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

Thanks for all the replies. I spent yesterday troubleshooting, still have the surging idle issue. I did take the car around the block and it runs pretty good(no boost yet)
Here is what I've found so far:

Surging/Hunting/Erratic Idle
The surging idle started at my last track day, about a year ago today(N/A motor). I was beating on the car pretty hard at Pocono(full track) and kept hitting the speed limiter at 135mph. On the last session I noticed the temp gauge getting near the H so I pulled off after a cooling lap and called it quits for the day. After about 30 minutes of sitting I started the car and that was when the surging idle started. I tried a coolant flush, and replacing all the coolant, then bleeding the system. Still surging. I then cleaned the IACV, still surging. NO FITV on the car so that cant be it...The car went into storage and that was that for about a year. Then before JRSC install I put in a new timing belt, water pump, and all the associated parts with that job. Since I was draining out ALL the coolant I thought this would just get resolved in the process, guess not. So onto start up, you saw the video, still a problem.

I have steady 17 in. vacuum when car starts cold, and it runs the normal warm up at 2000rpm. It's only after the engine gets a bit warm it goes to lower the idle and it starts surging.

*Also(maybe unrelated) when I turn on the AC the car runs at a steady 2000rpm and 17in. vacuum.BUT the bypass valve on the JRSC is zip-tied open. Isn't this a huge vacuum leak?

I was concerned about a head gasket leak and did a compression test, these were the results.

Compression Test:

cold:
#1----------#2----------#3---------#4
260psi-----260psi----- 270psi-----280psi

warm:
#1----------#2----------#3---------#4
260psi-----260psi----- 260psi-----260psi

So compression looks pretty good right? If I had an issue with the head-gasket the numbers would be off in one or more cylinders correct? Do I have to do a leak down test to really know?


Spark Plugs:
I put in the NGK BCPR7ES-11 gaped to .032" I guess I had ordered the wrong ones cause I swear I wanted the NGK BKR7EIX ... but this thread here says its close enough, the difference being projected tip VS projected insulator..... thoughts?

BKR = 14mm (B), Hex Size 5/8 Projected Tip (K), Resistor (R)
BCPR = 14mm (B), Hex Size 5/8, Projected Insulator Type (P), Resistor (R)

Anyway I DO need to order more for my tuning session so I will be certain to get the BKR7EIX, but are the BCPRs I have in now the wrong plugs for my application?

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

Throttle Body:
(Edelbrock 65mm #4789)
As for the sticky throttle body it was a simple fix, it only took 5 years of annoyance and contacting Edelbrock multiple times(thanks for NO help)..until I had found this post by asubennet, somewhere on this site that said the throttle ear was the culprit. After popping the t/b off, sure enough this was the problem: all fixed now. After multiple other attempts(mostly cleaning) I cannot believe this simple fix was over looked by me or the factory, glad its gone.



and

MRGRIM

iTrader: (1)

the big diffrence between the 2 plugs is the electrode type and the gap
with the BKR7EIX they are irridium fine tip plugs and have a gap of .031 thou
BCPR7ES-11 they are Nickel Alloy broad tip plugs and have a gap of .043 thou

the bigger the gap the harder the coil has to work to produce a quality spark
also a broad tip allows indirect spark and wanding across the electrode
the general gap people are using although depends on tune is around .028 thou
I could explain all the details and be here all day but thats the jist of it

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

Maybe I should post some install pics/etc.

new cam gears, timing belt,tensioner, water pump in, timing checked and on point.



PreBoost engine for the last time. See ya later AEBS Type R intake manifold, you were enjoyed!



Everything out and prepping for JRSC... yes my toe shoes are ugly, but they ARE the most comfortable car wash/work/simulator shoe. Just don't be seen in public with them : 0


Oil cooler rotated 90˚ CCW



Power Steering bypass AN fittings installed, line T'd for resovoir.



Rough fitting of the heat exchanger and the H20 pump (in place of some AC component using its bracket)


New hole cut in engine bay for the LHT coolant hoses. I will be re-purposing the windshield washer fluid tank as a reservoir for the LHT.
Using the rubber grommet from the other side of the car(by brake booster) worked out well looks nearly OEM.



NEW Hondata gasket in, hoses routed(oil cooler), wiring harness run through top of oil separator box, and along back of block. Oil filter on.


S-tube to Charger honda-bond (mild port/rebuild no coating on rotors)



The SEXY! I love the craftsmanship of the LHT manifold, the welds are so clean!
Also to note here, we had to bend the hard line from the master cylinder from below to its location in this pic. It was directly in the way or the charger pulley, no longer an issue.

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

Belt alignment. *using MVM stepper pulley on new re-manufactured Denso alternator
I think it looks pretty good. This was with 3 washers measuring .31" on the high end of the alternator.



Power-steering system looped up:


IN this pic you can see how I chose to route the cooling hose to the I/M. Going under the T/B looked like the best option with the LHT, but the end tank always wants to be in the way. Still have the MAP sensor on the T/B will remount to the I/M when I get the hondata going.

The most challenging part of this install was getting everything to fit. Its so dang tight with the JRSC and the LHT not to mention the Edelbrock T/B that getting the throttle cable to route and mount turned out to be the next issue to deal with(see next post)

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

Thank you for the check list Grim---

vacuum leak----still possibly the culprit, looking for vaccum leaks still.

TPS set correct ---not sure I how I can check this, but haven't touched it
the wires colors are ------<-------|YEL/BLU------<-------|RED/BLK------<-------|GRN/BLK

MAP in correct location-map is currently on the T/B I will put it on the manifold and block off the t/b hold before the tuning session when I install the hondata, correct? I ordered the hondata with a jrsc basemap installed, should I throw this in and see what happens? Do I need better injectors installed first?
also I know this is confused with the TPS sometimes and can confirm the wire colors are
----<---------|YEL/RED----<--------RED/GRN--<--------GRN/WHTE

cam gears and timming recheck --√ cam gears still at 0,0 and timing still on after running car, driving a bit,cranking by hand 2 rotations,etc. I think I'm good here.

"cam gear noise" check to see if rear plastic cover is rubbing
i didnt take the rear cover off so I'm hoping this isnt an issue. The noise certainly seams to be subsiding now. Maybe its just the noise of these cams vs cast units.

injectors thinking of using E85---using 550 and about to go 14psi-----I may want to use e85 down the road. Its not feasible at this point in time but just wanted the best overall as to not upgrade them ever again. My tuner stocks the IDs so I may just go with whatever they have in stock.

have you got a wideband ?
exhaust temp going up normaly means going lean
--I do have a MTX-L wideband I was waiting to put in until I figure out a mounting solution. I should get this in before the tune. Also do I need this for the hondata to function properly? I guess this is next on the do list.

spark plugs I did have some irridiums in there before not sure make or number but they are out with the charger install. I now have the BCPR7ES-11 gaped to .032" installed. I am ordering some BKR7EIX for the dyno tune. (thanks for the advice MRGRIM)

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

Besides the trouble shooting, working out the throttle cable was the toughest part. Cable is way too long so that's 1 issue, and there is no way to really connect it on the manifold and the old brackets for the T/B simply won't work.
Option 1 is convert to GSR t/b and bracket, why go smaller when everything I have now is 65-68mm. (GSR T/B is 60mm, talk about bottle neck)

Option 2 -purchase LHT T/B and cable, install and be done with it. This may be an option but I've already forked over too many of my hard earned green backs, at this point I defer to my Dad's years of making **** work....

Option 3 - build a bracket. NOT sure I would of ever had the insight to do this without reading about it in the JRSC build thread, thanks MarkOlson for the informative pics and write up. While he has a different T/B that has a nice spot to mount with 2 holes, we were limited to only 1, so enter some ingenuity, a hope, a shelf bracket from the hardware store, and viola...


*note the Tilton P.S. resevoir mounted on firewall at this point

Yes, that's right, a shelf bracket. Its pretty sparsely populated where I work on the car and finding aluminum at 4:00pm on a Sunday without driving 30 miles one way to Lowes leaves you with few options. Luckily my Dad doesn't give up too easily. He went to the hardware store to get aluminum, they had none, so he searched around and came back with a shelf bracket, I thought it was a joke, but it's really working out well so far:

Here you can see the mount still in the fab. stages, look at how much extra length was left over on my ITR throttle cable, this led to another crafty solution. We bolted the OEM ITR throttle bracket onto the newly created bracket.


Bracket cut down, bent to position, desired cable length measured (cable end needs to be around where its folded)


We moved this throttle cable holder from where it was on the shock tower to on top of the LHT Manifold. Now cable runs flawlessly to where it needs to go. Still too long though...



Next we cut the cable where to desired length, then took an OEM bolt (M8 maybe), cut it on both ends where there were no threads, drilled a hole through it, and had a friend weld it into place with some super thin rod (stainless maybe). The end result was fantastic!

*note we probably cut about 3-4 inches off of the cable

Bracket finished, cable cut, installed and perfect length, minimal clearance on everything, but enough to not rub.
Beat on and tested, so far so good.
Not bad for a shelf bracket.


Bracket gets added strength, rigidity by being butted up against the end tank.

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

Wire tuck drivers side
While I had this much crap out of the car (fender,ac,etc) I thought this would be the best time for a wire tuck.
Nothing too fancy or clean, just move the main loom on the drivers side to behind the fender. MR. Holesaw meet Mr. frame rail (I think that's what its called)

drilled through both sides, I think 2.5"

Next I sliced some tubing right down the center and then used silicone to hold it in place.
Wires were loomed up and taped, then pull threw, zip tied into place.


I didn't really take a before pic, but at the top of the thread there are some pics of the wires I had running down this side of the car.
Overall it was worth the effort. Looks cleaner. Working on routing the heat exchanger hoses at this point.

It worked well so far. Some day I will get around to the passenger side but it looks a bit overwhelming for now.

I also wanted to paint some stuff while it was out. Here is the freshly painted DC Sports header (4-2-1) that is connected to my
puny 2.25" exhaust that has served me well to this point.
I will have to upgrade the whole output system when I have the $, so for now, enjoy what I have.
This was a facelift considering the rust in the earlier photos. (*I did manage to sand/treat the rust out before painting so it should not be an issue)



Thirsty engine deserves a nice treat. Fresh royal purple I got on sale at Advance Aut Parts for $7.49 a quart. Drink Up!
Stella for me, the purps for you. Also to note in this pic the now re-purposed washer tank, and water pump tucked neatly beneath. The clearance here is tight too.


My cousin stopped by with his commuter car. Loaded Kia Optima. I like this car A LOT!
I will be embarrassed if after all this work, his stock car beats up on mine..I think they have around 295HP, but looks heavy.


Shortly after my cousin stops by, these two passed through, guess they were thirsty too.


Will post the finishing photos later

MRGRIM

iTrader: (1)

with regard to the TPS setting
plug in your laptop with Hondata software installed and look in the help file for setting TPS
you will find it can be done in around 30seconds with the Hondata s300
if you get stuck with the TPS setting up just PM me and Ill do detailed instructions

Injectors if you just have the stock injectors in there at the moment cable tie the bypass valve open so you stay out of boost as it will run very lean if it goes into boost

throttle setup ..if you did change it get the 68mm gsr TB makes life easy and a neat install..but what you have done works just as well "good job"
Over all looking good ..bet your excited to get it tuned and have some fun with no traction

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

thanks for the offer/advice Grim. I spoke with a tuner buddy of mine and he also thinks the TPS is cause for the idle issue. I will be testing the voltage on it this week and will let you know my findings.

I'm afraid on a side issue I may have a blown head gasket (white smoke from exhaust---not billowing out but its there when cold and gassed on--see video below.)

thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpnHXW24hnI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzIdhf13PQw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6qA3sUV9l8

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

was it smoking before the JRSC install? you could have potentially confused a vacuum and coolant line. Its been known to happen before.

bigpunn421

check my recent threads. i have the same problem.

i am ordering block off plates for my iac and fitv and having my tuner tune it without those crapy valves.

did you try to reset your base idle? when i tried doing it to mine it just stalled out.

to patch my problem i just opened the tb up so i didnt have to keep my foot on the gas. idle is high tho

i reset my tps to factory ohm setting and i still had the problem.


if you figure out whats up with yours let me know

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

Blown headgasket is a possibility but you would know it almost immediately, the oil would be milky looking, and you would have a sweet smell coming from the exhaust. Too me it sounds like a vacuum leak as a result of you using honda bond to seal areas where there is supposed to be a gasket. You can spray brake clean or carb cleaner in areas around the intake and blower sealing surfaces and if the idle changes you know that its sucking in through that location.

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

thank you for your reply Wantboost. It did not smoke before the JRSC install, however the funky idle was present before. I will have to look again but I triple checked everything as we went.


Thanks for the reply Spawn, this hondabond vs gasket has been quite the debate on here. I tried to go with the consensus, and also the LHT manifold had specific directions drawn onto the manifold stating hondbond here. Conventional wisdom was use a gasket, I hope this is not the leak. I will try the carb cleaner trick. Thank you.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

if it didn't smoke before either the supercharger has a leaking seal at one of the rotors (it would eventually stop smoking as the charger snout would run out of oil)

but i'm almost positive a vacuum line is being ran to a coolant source, that smoke was so light and faint thats what it has to be. normally when a headgasket lets go the car smokes like a steam engine

MRGRIM

iTrader: (1)

are you sure its oil burning as myn had the sam eidle issue at first start up
and also smoked heaps turned out to be fuel due to the idle
have a look in hondata parramaters you will see the IACV percentage adjustment move the slider a little at a time
this will settle down the IACV allow 1min per adjustment change

The manifold pressure diffrence the charger makes upsets the IACV and the ECU
is trying to compensate for the vacuum diffrence it see's on the MAP
I would also look at the sensors window and check the ECT, TPS, are reading correct
also did you do the setup of the TPS as it is needed with out it being set things will go crazy

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

fuel burns black.... that smoke was white

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

the supercharger was a fresh rebuild so I hope its not that.
Im going to check over all my connections in the morning
I do think its coolant and not oil out of the exhaust and will do the smell check
thanks for the reply

GOOCH-JDM-ITR

IM still running the stock ECU, P73 I think. I haven't actually plugged in the hondata yet out of fear of blowing something up but maybe I should. Its supposed to have a boost option with a base map on it.