Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Last year I spun a rod bearing at the track so I set out to rebuild my engine for the 4th time in 8 years. I’m bored with the standard builds – Low compression with an oversized turbo. This time I want to try something radically different and challenge some common myths like -

1.) You can’t safely run high boost with high compression. At least not without race gas.
2.) Turbo Honda’s don’t have any low end torque under the curve. We’re all well aware of this.
3.) Only big turbos don’t suffer from torque/boost taper at high rpm. I hate seeing the big turbo hump in the middle which turns into a 100ft-lbs dive of disappointment.

The goal is to build a responsive high efficiency engine with high compression, a high flow ported head and big cams. I am going to reuse my current turbo setup which consists of a Hytech manifold and a GT3076R-13. I’d like to make at least 500hp observed with lots of torque that is linear and smooth.

To start I’m reusing my B18c Benson sleeved block but had it bored up a size to 84.5mm, replacing the pistons, the LS crank and the 1 spun rod. I need to source a ported head, valve train and cams.

I’ve been running E85 ethanol for 2 years so I already have the fuel system upgraded and ready to go. I have the dual Walbro 255lph pump kit from FullBlown with -8 feed and -6 return. Last year I had ID1000s but maxed them out at 450hp observed (500hp Standard CF). This year I will be running 1600cc Bosch EV14 injectors.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

i dont want to nitpick but running E85 on this kinda defeats point #1

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Is that because you consider E85 race gas? Its available at my local pump for $2.99 a gallon. I would consider that pump gas over VP race fuel that cost $10/gallon. Im truly sorry if you dont have Ethanol in your area because youre missing out.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

No i dont consider it "race gas" but given the fact that E85's limitations exceed even that of 110 octane, and its not a readily available fuel for most of the USA, i wouldnt call it standard either. 91 is probably the most readily available "premium" gas across the whole country with select areas like south jersey having 93. God forbid i venture outside of jersey i have to detune my car to handle 91 octane only. Id love to run a flex fuel sensor and proefi and run ethanol but unfortunately the nearest station is 100 miles away.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Valid points. However E85 is readily available to me at my location so I will be using it. Anyways we will be testing the limits of E85. And while we are on the topic of how awesome Ethanol is, this white paper from Delphi shows how far ethanol can be pushed. http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2010-01-0619.pdf

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

13.5:1 compression and 20psi here we come

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

most places have 93.. even nevada has 93, the only places with 91 are cali, and a few other shitty states. we have e85 but its scattered, mostly downtown... the closest station to me is a 30 mile round trip..

i wanna see this build naow lol

UncleD

iTrader: (2)

91 only in OR.

In for some high compression and Pro1's!!

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

i really don't get the whole thing about 2 octane points... but oh well.

dcmatt

iTrader: (7)

non-VTEC

what kind of high compression numbers are we talking?

DDTECH

Need a cam eh.. i know someone who knows a guy.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

First a couple pics of the 2011 damage. Here is the big end of the #4 rod that cost me $200 to replace for a matched Pauter rod. Ugh

A close up of the big end half, trashed.

Here is the trashed #4 rod journal on the crank


I’m not certain what the cause was but the theory is detonation. This engine had about 1500 miles, 100+ dyno pulls, countless street tuning but only 5 track passes. The rod bearings had a clearance of .0015” which is within factory spec but a little tight now in hindsight. We noticed on the dyno a little oil smoking which I later traced back to #4. The combustion chamber of #4 and its valves were slightly oily which are signs of a valve seal leaking. This probably caused detonation as there is evidence of in the flaking of the ceramic coating on piston #4. The slight detonation wasn’t enough to damage the piston but my theory is it squished the oil clearance out of rod #4 when under load.

Here you can see the chips in the Swaintech ceramic coating along the outside from the detonation. It’s light but obvious when you compare it to the other cylinders.

Piston #3 to compare. Looks totally fine, as do the others.



GSR Head chamber of #4. it’s a little oily.

Head chamber of #3 to compare



Here is the video of the run where the trouble started. You can hear a loud vibration at the staging line. I knew that noise wasn’t normal but it’s tough to judge under a helmet and with everything going on. Still managed a 12.0 @ 127 with a passenger! Made 2 more passes after this where the vibration developed into a knock and it was clear the car wasn’t driving home under its own power.

[youtube]ZrWS9HDz9w4[/youtube]

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Oh about 13.5:1

ef92b

isn't .0015" a bit on the tight side considering your output power?

i've gone to .002" on rod clearances with 3 builds so far and oil pressure stays 38-40psi @ idle, w/ normal operating coolant temp.

subscribing for this high CR build

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I agree with you now. However I had several engine builds prior that were fine with that clearance. Detonation was the demise of them, not bearing failure. Ive reused these Pauter rods since my first engine build. Also many on this forum will tell you they use .0015" on the rods too.

I will be targeting high teens to 2 thou this time.
Learn from experience!

4cylfiend

iTrader: (1)

Good luck! I love high comp turbo builds!! They are alot of fun on the street, just get a good tire

crvtectim

Subscribed!

The sweed

Remember that there is summer and winter blends etc. E85 is not consistent and if you are tuning on the edge i can become dangerus if you get a bad tank. A thick racing oil requiers larger clearens than stock stuff. How you use the engine also determance bearing clearance. So one clearance doesn´t work on every engine.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

This is true. This vehicle is not a DD and sees only blue skies and summer days.
I only get Ethanol from one station and only summer blend.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

New Parts!

My tuner has been a big inspiration for this project and pushed me to go as high as I can go with the compression. He wanted to do custom pistons. Instead I went with the largest dome off the shelf pistons Wiseco sold in my size - K594M845 with 8.25cc domes. Wiseco says it will have a compression between 13.2 to 14.2 depending on the head used. I’ve always had my pistons ceramic coated in the past for extra protection and this time was no different.

I originally decided to go with the Skunk2 Tuner1 cams because of the rule that Pro1s are too big for a GT30. I later changed my mind and decided to try the new GSC T1 cams. They are a big aggressive cam designed for turbo with less overlap than Tuner1’s. GSC is a great company with great support. I will check v2v clearances for both cams instead I decide to change later down the road.

Plans:
Rebuild short block with looser bearing clearances
Install high compression pistons - Wiseco K594M845 (84.5mm, +8.25cc)
Install new valve train and cams – GSC T1 cams and Supertech valves, springs, retainers
Check piston to valve and valve to valve clearances with new cams.
Bigger injectors – Bosch EV14 1600cc


New Wiseco pistons, 84.5mm, had the domes ceramic coated too


Setup an assembly room in the basement. Its cleaner than the garage and at a constant temperature.


Had machine shop hone the cylinders up a size to 84.5mm and resurface the deck .006”. Wiseco calls for .003” piston to wall clearance. I went with .0035” p2w because I plan on making a lot of power. I ran .0030” p2w on the last 3 builds, all over 450hp, without any issue.


Got a new LS crank. I’ve been using a LS/B20 crank for years. It has a slightly longer stroke than GSR 89mm vs 87.2mm and its usually cheaper. This crank came rebalanced and micropolished. The seller threw in a set of ACL Race STD size bearings for $215. Huge win.


Got my big OEM order in. Gaskets and Orings for the rebuild. Bought new main bolts too as they have been reused many times. Im OCD about rusty bolts so theres a lot of new bolts for all over the car.

phaphon

nice good luck wirh the build.

0xenocron

Who is tuning it and what system are you running on? Looking forward to seeing what a 13+ compression turbo build does...besides have zero traction

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Ive been running Demon/Neptune for 2 years and plan to stick with that. However I have been eye balling Hondata coil on plug so I may make the switch if I need more spark juice. Currently I have the MSD Pro-Billet system and have had great success with that. *

Tuner is Rick Gifford of Bald Turbo Freak. He recently moved his operation to a shop called Lifeline Performance in Rochester.

In regards to traction. Ive been using a 4 port boost controller which gives me 5psi (wg) to 30psi range. That enables me to leverage boost by gear and gain full traction in every gear.

rich7777

Looks like you have a very interesting build up your sleeve Muckman. Please post up plenty of videos we can drool at