s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

I guess I'll start a new thread for this rather than Hijacking the other one.

What is the best strategy for repacking bearings that already have some use on them? Not damaged or loose, just want to preventatively repack. Or is this not possible?

Can the bearings be pressed out without damage? Every time i've pressed them out, I just push on the inner race, but I assume that is not nice to the ball bearings. Not sure how it can be done otherwise.

known

iTrader: (1)

Personally, I would just replace them after pressing them out. I say that because they are relatively inexpensive and the potential to damage them pressing them out is greater.You would also need to remove the hub from the bearing which usually ends up with the race stuck around it.

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

I could leave the race on the hub. it is not a small investment for both sets of knuckles (primary, backups that see use)

VTECIntegra9

If you are pressing the bearings out they should never be loaded through the *****/rollers, you could easily brinel the raceways and then very quickly fail the bearings after.

If you press them out you run the risk of reducing your press-fit interference which could effect preload... however for these types it's a lot less risky compared to some other types of bearings......... but I have never dug into mine so until I could have a good luck at them I'm not 100% on this.

Does anyone have a good picture of the assembly?

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

good advice. I might also try to repack them while still in the knuckles as well... though I know taht will be a PITA.

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

BUMP! more helps is needed

VTECIntegra9, do you want pictures of the disassembled bearing, or of the knuckle assembly?

solo-x

Buy new bearings. For one, you're going to have a hard time getting the inner race off the hub. Two, when you pull the hub, the inner race is dimpled by the bearings. It'll fail shortly after re-assembly.

VTECIntegra9

What solo-x said also. I was thinking of rear bearings.... are you talking about the fronts?

Personally I would not disassemble a sealed bearing and reassemble it... even new... For ours it looks like the flinger stays with the inner ring without damage which is good... I would still worry about grease content in the bearing... too much grease will not only purge but also increase friction... but at high temp/speeds it should purge a good amount through the seals if there is too much....

As for installed front bearings then no, they should not be re-used. The inner raceway presses onto the spindle and then butts up (lol butt) against the inner flange lip.... so for you to successfully remove it from the spindle; you would need to get between the flange and the bearing and only press on the inner ring... about impossible to do. This is the only way you would be able to get the hub out of the bearing without brineling (dimpled) the raceways... and you would then spall the bearings and they would fail quickly.

I worked for SKF and now work for the company that owns *** and have done some bearing testing before I moved completely into engine components... and there are some very minor changes they can make to a bearing or seal to cause it to fail prematurely and are not a component you want to mess with... they're almost extremely fragile however they can withstand very high changing loads/temperatures through millions and millions of cycles without any reduced performance...

Lastly only use premium bearings for a car you are going to put on the track, or even a street car you plan to keep - we did MANY AtoB comparisons vs. Chinese plain white box bearings/hubs as well as some other inexpensive competitors and the differences were huge... Chinese parts failed very very quickly in just about every case.. SKF, Timken, NSK, *** are the top 4 I've deal with and wouldn't bother with anything else.

kay, sick of typing - let me know if you have any other questions lol

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

great info! The problem is i dont know if the bearings have been comprimised, i know they just got a bit hot. I'm not going to replace all 4 bearings at this point. We are using OEM Honda, which are NTN or something?

rice_classic

NTN or Nachi

known

iTrader: (1)

I just made a thread on this, I repacked new bearings and have been doing so on my race car as well as others who actually race not just HPDEs. We have found this to be very helpful and have yet to have a single issue or failure.

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

I have repacked new bearings without issues as well, but known, I am talking about bearings that have already been pressed into knuckles.

I might just try to carefully remove the hub, and see if i've dimpled the inner/inner race. I'll post pictures of it if I do this.

known

iTrader: (1)

I know what you were referring to, as I mentioned I would not do it.

I was commenting on Vtecs comment quoted.

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

I know this forum loves to tell people to replace parts and spend lots of money. It just isn't feasible to spend an extra $400+ per race on 2 new sets of OEM bearings. If anyone would like to donate to this cause, let me know

That said, i may try injecting some new grease in thru the rear seal to inner race gap. At least then there is some grease in there that I know hasn't been compromised.

known

iTrader: (1)

$400?

My Koyo bearings were like $60 for the fronts.

The rears weren't much more, they last a season easily at least.


Some parts need to be replaced when they are removed, this is one of them.

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

I haven't removed them. These are OEM. They have 7 hours of use on each set.

Erik95LS

even oem ones have at least 30x the lifespan you've just mentioned. If you're wearing out bearings that often the grease within them is the least of your worries. Plus they're $60-70 a piece.

As others said I wouldn't do it for the reasons VTECIntegra mentioned.

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

its not the least of my worries. It is a worry. It isn't the greatest of my worries. It is a worry.

Bearing isn't loose. Preventative work wins races.

Have you done 210 hours of endurance racing, including on ovals, on one set of OEM bearings? Please provide proof.

They're no less than $80 brand new. I don't get dealership discount, work there, or have a dealer sponsor. Then shipping. But i'm not here to debate prices with people. Again, feel free to donate what you think they are worth.

VTECIntegra9, thank you for your useful advice. I trust your experience. I like when people actually give me reasons and don't hop on their H-T bandwagons and tell me to spend money and criticize my approach.

rice_classic

My advice.. replace hub/bearing every 2 years on a often raced or tracked car.

There, $400 every 2 years isn't bad eh?

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

yes, assuming no problems. Problems happen. My knuckles got hot. Are the bearings ruined? Nope, don't think so. Has the life of the grease been compromised? There is a decent chance.

Am I coming thru clearly yet?

edit, actually no, I won't even agree to this fundamentally. "2 years" is not a specification of wear on a bearing. That says nothign about how many hours, and more importantly, how man continuous hours on the bearing without cooling. I've burnt thru a new set of high quality bearings in 24 continuous hours on an oval. The life is shortened a lot by heat.

Erik95LS

Endurance racing is a different thing entirely and will certainly decrease life cycle. You never mentioned what type of driving/racing you're doing. Ovals will obviously increase wear on one side as well.

No bandwagoning here. Just didn't feel the need to point out the same things Ryan did.

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

yeah, i'm doing endurance racing and i typically do 1 race a year that is a roval with infield type thing.

That said, i'm going to attempt to inject some new grease into it to ensure they last another race or 2 at least to decrease my costs. Thoughts on this?

VTECIntegra9

Thank you kindly... tho the bandwagon is so easy!

I still think that if the bearings are going to be greased, the old grease should be mostly removed and the amount removed should be the amount put back in.

In production the grease is measured by weight, and we measure grease purge amount by weight before/after a test. You can do the same when you repack the grease by saving every drop you take out on a piece of paper and find the weight...

solo-x

Worth a shot, but I'll be floored if you pull it off.

IMO, you're worried about a part failing during an endurance race, so re-using a part that isn't supposed to be re-used is probably a bad choice. I would continue running the bearings until noticeable play or noise is detected. Log how long that took, and then replace them at 75% of that age. When you replace them, repack the new bearings with higher quality grease before assembly.

The hubs probably have a longer life cycle than the bearings, but they usually fail pretty catastrophically when they do go. I would first establish the life cycle of the bearings and at the very least replace the hubs every other bearing change. Track the life span of the hub too, just in case it fails before the bearing. If the bearing life is several years, just do the hubs at the same time.

Don't get pissed when someone thinks you've severely underestimated the life span of a part. I personally think you have here, and considering I've had bearings last 15yrs/300k miles, I think even in the harsher race environment they'll last longer than 7hrs. Just my .02.

Oh, and to repeat myself, don't bother repacking a used bearing if you're concerned about premature failure.

s1ngle

iTrader: (1)

Anyone have any idea what kind of grease the OEM Koyo bearings come packed with? Or what grease is compatible?

I pressed the hub out of my knuckle, and took the remaining inner race out. No brinelling