MalcolmV8

I need help understanding how the wastegate and blow off valve hookups work so I don't goof them.

I'll start with the wastegate. It has one barbed hookup on the side (pic below). I imagine that goes to a boost reference so it knows when to open and allow exhaust gases to bypass the turbo. 1) Where do I get the boost reference from? The nipple directly on the turbo? or do I want to take it off the intake manifold of the engine which is going to be at a lower pressure right? do to pressure drop across the intercooler.



2) What's the threaded hole on the top for?



Then to further complicate things I have the boost controller solenoid with the Hondata S300. 3) How does that figure into things? I see it has three hookups on the solenoid.
4) What about the spring inside the wastegate? I don't plan on running more than 10 lbs of boost since the internals of my motor are stock so does that mean I put a 10 lb spring in there and use the S300 to run anything less like say 5 lbs?

Next that brings up the blow off valve. I understand it's there so when you let off the throttle blocking the boosted air's air flow it doesn't cause a sudden back pressure on the turbo. 5) How do you determain where to set it at? I see on top you can adjust it harder or softer. Or does that have anything to do the pressure at which it will blow off?
It also has two hookups. 6) What do they connect to? After thinking about it for a while I'm thinking one hose goes on each side of the throttle body? so it can tell when it was suddenly closed?

7) What happens when I adjust the boost in the S300 from say 5 lbs to 10 lbs. Do I need to make adjustments to the BOV too?

Thanks so much for any help or pointers.

mr_munro

Doesnt the vacuum line go into the top of the wastegate for the boost controller for a more accurate reading, and the side nipple plugs into the turbo?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

WHAT A WASTEGATE IS
Internal or external, a wastegate is a boost-controlling device that operates by limiting exhaust gases going through the turbocharger, controlling the maximum boost pressure produced by the turbocharger itself. A wastegate consists of an inlet and outlet port, a valve and a pressure actuator.



How a wastegate works
A pressure actuator (or diaphram for an external gate), controlled by boost pressure determines whether the wastegate is open or shut. In its resting position, a wastegate is shut, and as the boost pressure builds, force is applied to the actuator (or diaphram). When the boost pressure exceeds the spring value, the actuator will progressively open the wastegate, bypassing some of the exhaust gases therefore maintaining the boost pressure at the set level.
Put simply – a wastegate prevents the boost pressure from climbing indefinitely and consequently blowing the engine.



Why an External wastegate may be needed
Most tuners will recommend an external wastegate for any engine producing 350hp or more, as running high boost through a factory internal wastegate can overpower the actuator spring, limiting maximum boost level. Aftermarket external wastegates feature bigger inlet and outlet ports, higher pressure springs and bigger actuator diaphragms to effectively control high boost pressure.

Wastegate diagram



BLOW OFF VALVE

A blow off valve, also referred to as a dump, bypass, or a pop off valve, is a vacuum-activated pressure relief valve. A typical BOV consists of an inlet and outlet port, a piston, a spring and a vacuum connection point.

WHAT A BOV DOES
A BOVs’ function is to release excess boost pressure from the intake system when the throttle is closed. A perfect example of this is during on boost gear changes. Without a BOV, upon shutting the throttle, the pressurised air caught between the free-spinning turbo and the shut throttle is forced back through the turbine blades, this, in turn, forces the turbine to slow down or stall. This phenomenon is often referred to as “compressor surge” or “cavitation” and it places undue load on the turbocharger bearings, significantly shortening the lifespan of the turbo or even causing serious damage.

The secondary function of a BOV is to reduce the “turbo lag” effect between gear changes. Without a BOV, the compressor surge slows the turbine down, which then takes longer to spool up again when the throttle is opened. With a BOV, the excess boost pressure is released, keeping the turbine spinning and thus reducing the turbo lag effect.

A BOV is usually mounted on the intercooler pipework between the turbocharger compressor and the throttle body, ideally on the throttle body side of the intercooler. A vacuum line connects the upper chamber of the BOV with a vacuum/boost source from the intake manifold. In its resting position, a spring holds the piston shut against the intake port.
Under boost with the throttle open, the blow-off valve remains shut. Upon shutting the throttle, vacuum is created in the inlet manifold, this vacuum combined with the pressure in the intercooler pipe forces the piston to open, releasing excess boost pressure in the intake system.
Blow off Valve diagram

MalcolmV8

Those are nice explanations but they don't answer the specific questions I have. For example just two of them.

1) what is the threaded opening on the top of my wastegate?
2) why does my BOV have two hose connections? Examples like yours above only reference one. Which do I use?

ekcoupeh22

iTrader: (2)

for the wastegate the boost controller gets hooked up between the nipple on the turbo and the nipple on the wastegate the top hole of the wastegate is just anther vaccumm hole its fine if you leave it open mine is ps that wastegate looks like a tial knock off it just doesnt look right. and i would get rid of the blow off valve and upgrade

MalcolmV8

According to this explanation I would need to hookup the boost control solenoid to the top as it applies pressure down force to hold the spring/diaphragm closed.
http://www.hondata.com/s300boostcontrol.html

As for that Tial wastegate. I sure hope it's real or else I got ripped off, it was expensive. Bad enough the guy selling it sent me all the pics hiding the cosmetic damage on top where someone hit it with a grinder. If it's fake too then hell I don't know.

Everyone says ebay BOVs are fine, it's the wastegate that's super important so that's why I got a Tial wastegate and an ebay BOV.

ekcoupeh22

iTrader: (2)

Oops sorry didn't see that you were running a boost solenoid I have a manual boost controller. You could go on tials website and they have a page dedicated to knock offs just check that out. And no "eBay" brand is good take this advice from a person who learned the hard way " do it once do it right" I will never have a eBay part in my car again. The problem with them is they give out and you'll be slowly losing boost with it

MalcolmV8

Found the page. http://www.tialsport.com/realvsfake.html sure says it's fake. Well that's annoying as hell. The guy I bought it from (on this forum) assured me it was real. wtf. anyways not to get side tracked. Just means I have to buy another one... live and learn.

ekcoupeh22

iTrader: (2)

Sorry to say it homie I think you got played on the wastegate I was just on tials site and yours looks like the fake 1

ekcoupeh22

iTrader: (2)

Well maybe you can get your money back just be careful next time and do a lil research I hate to see people get burned

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

For the fake knock offs you have, (which can cause problems that include boost spike)

1) the threaded one is to use as a connection to an electronic boost controller. That line will go to the solenoid , while the other fitting on the side goes to a boost pressure source like the intake manifold.

For example.
http://www.itswarm.com/net_pics/dub/tial_wg.jpg

Like I said shows where the top threaded portion (which should have a separate fitting to fit a vaccuum hose, to go to the boost control solenoid. If you don't have an electronic boost controller , don't worry about it.


2) The GReddy knock off only has these connections, because the original authentic had two connections. (its an obviously BAD copy of a GReddy Type S which had two connections). The original GReddy with two connections gave you a choice as to which source was better for the valve. Back when I had one, I on ly used the top one for my vaccuum source.

All of the other quality ones have one that go to a tee'd vaccuum source like a vaccuum manifold (which would be attached to the brake booster) or (again, ) an intake manifold.

Unfortunately, you have a TiAL knock off.

MalcolmV8

I think I'm hosed. I've been collecting parts for a while for my project. I purchased it in April and he shipped it on 4/19 so it's to late for paypal or anyone to help.

What's a good reputable supplier to purchase a brand new wastegate and blow off valve at a decent price? If it's not ebay ripping me off it's the guys on the forum lol. I know it's just a few and not everyone but sheesh.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

There's a ton of good dealers that have TiAL. OR. just contact TiAL directly and they'll GIVE you a list of people you can choose from and call instead of wishing online.

http://renown-performance.com/
http://www.go-autoworks-store.com/tuac.html
http://lightningmotorsports.com/

Since you have a 2 bolt flange you have to CALL and specifically request to purchase a two bolt since the MVS V-band is now the standard. Plan to spend about 20 bucks over what's listed over the MVS..

You gotta pay for good quality, so get used to it. But it will be the first (and last) pieces of equipment that you'll ever need.

chancek

I have a authentic tial 38mm wastegate in the classifieds for 150. if interested shoot me a pm.

MalcolmV8

Are these good parts to get?

Wastegate
http://www.spoolinperformance.com/ti...a5c3f3ea83d169

BOV
http://www.spoolinperformance.com/gr...a5c3f3ea83d169

What does it mean if it's a Greddy "Type-RS"? is it a standard flange? can I use it?

crvtectim

Op, keep in mind that you will not be able to run any less boost than what your wg spring is rated at. Example, if you run that 10lb. spring, you can't crank the boost down to 5psi with your boost controller. If you're wanting to run a boost by gear setup, then you will need to purchase a wg with a lighter spring so you can up the boost from that point using your boost controller. If you just want 10psi all the time, buy a quality wg with a 10psi spring, hook your boost reference line to the bottom port, and dont worry about hooking up the bc to the top port.

Also, in regards to the adjustable bov, it's a balancing act really. Softer is ok for low boost. The main thing is that it's setup properly to prevent compressor surge.

MalcolmV8

Yeah I figured that one out last night while googling around so I think I'll purchase one with a low pressure spring, around 3 ~ 5 PSI so it's not to high while I'm tuning it. Then I'll turn the boost up later.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Its a standard GReddy flange. comparing it to the knock off you have, it should work, provided that is what flange is welded to the pipe. TYPE-RS is the standard series from GReddy. It was the upgrade to the original Type-S. you have a knock-off of the Type S. Those tend to freeze and break very quickly

Again with the wastegate, he has the old picture up, so E-mail him when you order. Or go to the other sources i listed and CALL so that it can be specifically the 2 bolt flange.

MalcolmV8

OK thanks. I'll make sure it's specifically the two bolt flange before ordering.

chancek

Mines 2 bolt with the 5 psi spring

racebum

ATP still has some of the 2 bolt 38mm gates at better prices than i've seen anywhere else.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...Category_Code=

MalcolmV8

I'm very skeptical of buying another used one and getting a second fake. I already paid a bunch for a so called real Tial. None the less I'm open to taking a look. How many miles on it and how old is it? Do you have pics?

The spoolinperformance link I posted above is cheaper than that.

nealnanoHX

98% of the stuff on ebay is fake. Always always ask the seller if the item is real name brand or a copy. I have seen HKS SSQV BOV sold as being real in the description and was pictured with the HKS blox and logos, but when I asked the seller just to be sure they have said no sorry it is a copy. Some where asking $180 for a fake SSQV.

MalcolmV8

Yes definitely. However my fake Tial was not from ebay. It was from a member on this forum who I asked several times if it was real and he assured me it was the real deal.

nealnanoHX

Nope it is a fake. Real Tial has their name casting recessed not standing up like yours has. It is an Ebay waste gate you did not buy it from Ebay but the person you got it from most likely did. Tial's casting is also a lot nicer/cleaner than the knock offs. Your type s BOV is also a fake. Replace them with real ones or you will have problems.