MTracing

Ok, so im debating between the b18 or b20 vtec. I was just wondering whats it cost you guys to build a b20/v all motor?? And how much power are you guys making? Thanks!

Mr.Burner

I just built one for a guy.

Pistons 12/5/1 forged
Rods *balanced
Crank polished
Block bored and decked
New bearings
Arp studs
Oil pan gasket
Front rear main seal
Oil pump
New timing belt

$2,400 included parts, machine, labor. Customer supplied short block and crank.

Car makes over 210whp with just a set of cams.

But if you do it the RS piston style or oem piston fly cut it can be done much cheaper. But that cuts your reliability in half.

Price diff isnt going to change being a 18 or the 20. Both will need the same parts and necessary machine work to be done correctly.

Mr. EG

I spent a tad over $2000 building mine. It started out with stock cams, then I slowly upgraded.

negusjuda

im around 3 grand for my b20vtec but thats because i went with forged internals if i went with stock rods and say rs machine pistons i would of spent around 2500

b20_EM1

5550 as of right now... still not done and need a tune

ProjectEvilEj2

will it depends on you, if u want a stock b20vtec or a built one. if u just want a stock one with little bit of bolt on here and there your looking around $2000 to $3500. But if ur looking to built yours with internals then your looking around $3000 to maybe even $7000. I have a fully Built b20vtec and im spend over almost $7000 and im not even done.. It all depends on your plan with the motor.

Nikos

might want to think about going kseries and making 100whp more with the same amount of money

4piston

Agreed....the cost to build is essentially the same, though I'd say apples to apples its a 50-70hp advantage. It is the initial investment that cuts you on the K series. It pays huge dividends though. You can put a stock K with bolt ons in a car and make more average HP than a built B series, and still have OEM reliability.

For guys on a budget...sell your B series and pick up an H22 longblock for $600. You can do the H2B with a couple mounts and make your own midplate for cheap. That motor will make power like a K series and the parts are priced like those for a B series. Ported head, cams, good induction and a 100% stock block can make 260. A big stroke purpose built NA setup can make 360 on e85

Professor15

100whp more? so around 300whp for 3K? by all means post away on how to achieve such.

Granted a K and for that matter even an H will always win the hp/dollar debate against the lowly B. But they all seem to have their positives and reasons for choosing one then the other.

Nikos

I was referring to the guy who mentioned 7k but you know how it is on honda-tech. You have a friend of a friend who works at honda and gave you a blown k24a engine with a crv head and next thing you know you are running vtec killer on a ported crv head on a high compression engine making 300+ on e85

Cost is always relative and yes the final bill will be anywhere from 5-10k for a kengine working on older car.

But the market is so filled and saturated with bseries parts , they need a home as well.

For a stock gsr swap, its no brainer, it will be cheaper. but if you are going to here and there put 7-10k into your all motor bseries engine, you are getting advice from people that need work or need to get rid of their parts to go kseries


We can argue about this all day long, thus why kseries has its own forum on honda tech but like Luke said,

look at the facts for all motor

Pro All Motor
1. Jeremy Lookofsky Drag Cartel Civic K-Series 9.022 @ 149.xx
2. Norris Proyanto 1750 CM Civic K-Series 9.25x @ 147.47
3. David Robert 1785lbs Civic 4 door K-Series 9.330 @ 142.56
4. Norris Proyanto CM Insight K-Series 9.33x @ 145.xx
5. Bisi Bismoto Insight F-Series 9.381 @ 150.3x
6. Saul Salceda CM Integra K-Series 9.386 @ 143.90
7. Leslie A Toyota Scion 9.38x @ 14x.xx
8. Danny Tran SSR Racing RSX K-Series 9.46x @ 147.xx
9. Scott Kelly Toyota 9.57 @ 146.67
10. Tony Shagday Skunk2 RSX K-Series 9.6xx @ 144.xx

11. Shawn Hiller K-Series 9.7xx @ 14x.xx
12. Dr. Charles K-Series 9.86x @ 14x.xx
13. Nalani: CRX K-Series 9.87x @ 140.xx


Street All Motor

1.Jake Gavio TGR/RSTECH 2174lbs Civic EG F2K 10.134 @ 134.55
2.Jose Bello(Pepsi) JBR/DC 2175lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.164 @ 132.32
3.Tim Grey TGR 2154lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.249 @ 132.45
4.Mohamed Saleh (Bahrain) 2xxxlbs Civic EG K-Series 10.263 @ 131.83
5.Loan Nguyen Prayoonto Racing 2170lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.276 @ 132.45
6.Jerry Guzman Jerry Built 2000lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.280 @ 131.84
7.Joel Sipes Speed Factory 2150lbs Civic EG K-series 10.31x @ 129.XX
8.Albert Toro Certified 216xlbs Civic EG K-Series 10.37X @ 129.XX
9.Leo G. LGWERKZ 2120lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.430 @ 135.09
10.Randy Owens 2070lbs Civic EG H-Series 10.439 @ 131.59


11.Adel Tuning (Bahrain) 2xxxlbs Civic EG K-Series 10.440 @ 128.77
12.Yosolo Racing 2187lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.472 @ 129.17
13.TBMotorworx 1910lbs Crx B-Series 10.48x @ 130.xx
14.Alex Pagan Humble Performance 2172lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.51x @ 129.55
15.James Innes IPG Parts 2165lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.54x @ 127.xx
16.Marc Podkowik GP1 Racing 2180lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.559 @ 129.64
17.Mark Reis Reis Racing 2215lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.588 @ 127.69
18.Tuk 2050lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.63x @ 131.xx
19.Jeff Rosario 2175lbs Civic EK k-Series 10.642 @ 128.97
20.Luis Acosta(ņemo)- 2170lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.678 @ 127.95
21.JDM Jeffrey/hollandracing 2011lbs Civic EG H-Series 10.682 @ 129.67
22.Stefan Barbu ASP Headers 2155lbs Civic EK K-Series 10.72x @ 124.7x
23.Charm City Tuning 2160lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.72x @ 127.xx
24.Luke 4 Piston 21xxlbs Insight k-Series 10.733 @ 127.xx
25.Brian Fisher Inline Pro Civic EG K-Series 10.777 @ 112.89
26.Yunel Henriquez Nuni Monchi Racing 2164lbs Civic EK K-Series 10.805 @ 124.xx
27.Tony Laughlin H2nr 2150lbs Civic EG K-Series 10.82x @ 124.xx
28. DNR 1960lbs Crx K-Series 10.843 @ 130.92
29.Scott (From Cali) Civic EG K-Series 10.88x @ 125.xx



so 35 out of 42 cars are kseries

but the market is still 80% bseries ? I wonder what the real number is

Nikos

thanks to Marc P for making this list

PyroProblem

^^^Got me thinking about trading in my B series now, thanks!

05DC5-S

I have to agree with Nikos here. If you're spending that sort of money on a Bseries it have better be absolutley ridiculous in terms of it's power and curve. Even then it won't be anywhere near as reliable the mild K making the same power.


Here is a simple build K24 dyno graph:


As more time goes by and more information is shared builds like this will become more and more common, less costly and easily accomplished. Turbo B series still have their place but if you're going all motor the B is simply outdated and outgunned. For older chassis a strong arguments can me made for H2Bs but all motor H series street cars don't make 300+whp and couldn't allow an N/A DC-5 to do these sorts of things...

http://www.youtube.com/user/TwistedLoop

Nikos

Nice graph.
per honda tech rules
what s sae?
What is the weight and what does it run?

05DC5-S

299.6
Heavy
It run 12s on radials

BigDare23

To get back on TOPIC, I invested about $2.5K into my b20vtec and I made 218/155 to the wheels. 2 years later my motor is still going strong.

Nikos

how much would you pay to make another 100whp ?

Mr.Burner

Well if he were to pay for that extra 100hp then i would say it isnt worth it if he was happy with his set up...

A motor (k24 im guessing)
kpro
mounts
shifter box n cables
axles
nice header
harness's
etc.

That well exceeds what anyone will pay for 100hp

Not saying its not worth it in the long run tho. cause you only have to buy that **** once.
I myself am a fan of the k and currently run a k24a4 that makes well over 250whp a/m.

For competition, you would be silly not to go k series. But guys just have love for the b series and thats that.

DartGuy25

i got mine for 5k completely built. 11k invested in the motor tho from my good friend who is going thru a divorce and needed to sell sum of his (dreams) and i bought them Lol it was built by Race Engineering in flordia. luckly I got it with the dart b20 block so I was thrilled to say the least!

negusjuda

there is probably every bit of 300k dollars in the first 10-13 engine builds alone that you posted, yes they are fast but at a cost of at least 20-30 grand per build

negusjuda

granted i would love to go k but one im not in competition and and my car is just a daily driver two i cant afford a k at the moment while im in school but once im done i will def go k nothing outrageous just stock motor good bolt ons and k pro

peter_b16

Craigslist Built

B16 head-$500
S2s2 cams
S2 dual valve spring
supertech ti. retainers
AEM true time cam gear

B20z2 block-$350

CP 12.1cr/Eagle rods-$400

B20 headgasket-$20

VictorX mani-$250

RMF rep-$200

Acl bearings-$60

Free 68mm tb
No machine work
Built by me n a few friends
Traded a quaife lsd for b16 tranny w/ type r lsd

i believe it comes down to $1780..im on Craigslist religiously and try to find the best parts at the lowest price...its like shopping wit coupons..the build could have been about $150-$200 cheaper if i didn't buy a complete shortblock..My original build was suppose to be an OEM block build but the piston/rod combo was to cheap..could have bought a bare b20 block..

Just tuned at hybridworks n vallejo yesterday..made 235hp/153tq..

JeffBro

I like the craigslist build peter. Where did you get the cp pistons/ eagle rods for so cheap?!

peter_b16

Bought it off a couple of guys that own a body shop in south Sacramento..he posted it up on Craigslist and like i said earlier..i was one of the first to see it and jumped on it with the qwikness..lol..

sxysweed

Wasn't it your engine that had a pulley come off and eat the timing cover?