Type-Rare#1248

my car eats mad amount of oil and acura might not do warranty work for my car cuz it has been modified (excuses...but wutever)

anyway, if I were to bring it to a shop to do it, how much would it cost

also, I would like to have an idea of how far into the engine the piston rings are...are they near headgaskets??

Thank you

CivicEK.PDX

you have to pull the head and drop the oil pan and rod caps and push them through the top. The MYABE slight hone and position the rings and put ti all back together

Type-Rare#1248

how much time does that translate to?

once again, is that near the headgasket?

Thanks alot for your help

altoid

if you know what you're doing and are very very organized i'd say about 4 hours. if not a day or two. Not to mention you'd need a ring compressor, ring expander 400 grit honer, head bolts, an head gasket. Gotta keep the bearing with their corresponding rods and crank journals. so lots of space and a clean working environment would be best advised

B18Ccivic

I am currently in the process of replacing the rings in my B18C so I'll tell you about my experience. Currently my motor is in pieces in my garage waiting for the rings I ordered to arrive. Like the previous poster mentioned you need to pull the head off the car, and yes this is right by the head gasket since the gasket lies between the head and the block. I would rate this as a semi advanced DIY project. Since actually getting the head off involves quite a bit. I would highly recommend getting a helms manual before trying this and you will need several special tools to accomplish it. A previous poster mentioned the cylinder hone, I got one for about $25 at a local autoparts store. You would also need a torque wrench and the already mentioned ring compressor (about $10) Asside from the tools this is a big operation on a DOHC engine. You need to remove the cams, exhaust manifold, oil pan, and intake manifold. this involves quite a few wiring harnesses and coolant lines. Rings are SUPER critical that they are done right. Another poster mentioned the 400 grit hone. The factory manual calls for 600 grit, but I couldn't find that so I bought a 400. I talked to J&E the other day (I have J&E pistons and rings) and he said to use a 280 grit hone for chrome rings or they won't seat properly. End gap is also critical. In fact I can think of so many things that are critical that I can't mention them all. If you don't consider yourself a fairly competent mechanic this is probably not a job for you. I'm not sure you even asked how hard it is to DIY but I thought I would let you know in case you are considering it. I have no idea what shops charge, but my guess is quite a bit. It would also be a good time to replace the timing belt since it needs to be 1/2 way removed to get the head off. The head gasket should always be replaced after pulling the head. My acura dealer dinged me $70 for one. The rings themsleves are about $125 at my dealer. I have .020 over pistons so I have to order aftermarket rings but I hear very good things about the factory rings. anyway my .02 on the subject.

altoid

im a d-series guy myself so thats why i said 400 grit. My manual calls for 400 grit on the d16a6. Just throwing that out to eliminate any confusion

Type-Rare#1248

great info...thanks alot

b18ccivic...good luck on your project

B18Ccivic

Ah good to know Esquared4. I was ready to hone with 600 grit if I could find it (I couldn't) but I'm glad the J&E guy told me to go 280 or the rings wouldn't seat. Since I think this is probably what was the problem in the first place, the rings in my engine are quite new but I suspect they were installed on a 600 grit hone and thats why they never seated properly. I think that it is most important to use whatever hone the ring manufacturer specifies, if you use the factory go with what the manual says. If the previous owner had paid attention I wouldn't be redoing mine now. Like I mentioned rings are very critical that they are done right.

Bizarre

B18Ccivic:

What would those little critical steps be? I am planning to do my rings on my b16(would it also be 600 grit?) and I have done rings on domestic cars so I have a bit of experience behind rings. Oh yeah, their just stock honda rings. Thanks


[Modified by Bizarre, 6:07 PM 2/27/2003]

martini

Things like, when measuring end gap, make sure the rings are SQUARE to the bore. Inserting them by hand, may make them angled slightly, which would exagerate the gap, which would make you under-gap them.

And things like making sure they are right side up, and making sure the gaps don't line up with the rod or wristpin axis. And staggering the gaps, stuff like that.

It's fairly easy...but I wouldn't say it's a beginner project by any means.

Now tell us more about this warranty and why Acura won't do the work. What mods do you have on the car? The burden of proof is on them. They have to prove that the mods are what cause the malfunction, if they can't, then they need to do the warranty replacement.

Bizarre

First of all thanks for the help Martini. Which tool would you use to measure the end gap? Is their a procedure for this? Thanks Sorry about the newbie questions. I just never measure the gap when I've done this before. That's of course because it was a garbage motor not going into any car.

Type-Rare#1248

i have dc jdm header and carsound cat

but i like your argument of burden of proof...i will definitely try that

Bizarre

^^^

SlayANT

Make sure you have all the parts in hand before you even start taking the engine apart. Other than that, just go slow and methodical and you should be ok.
To square a ring:
1) put the ring in by hand
2) use a piston and insert it into the cylinder
3) lightly push down on the piston to square out the ring.
4) use a feeler gauge to measure the gap.

Bizarre

What is the recommended gap for stock applications for a b16a

RAWB

Using feeler gauges:

Top:
.008-.012 *
.008-.014 **

2nd
.016-.022

Oiler
.008-.020 *
.008-.018 **

* RIKEN mfg
** TEIKOKU mfg

Don't forget about the Piston-to-Ring-Clearance, as well.



[Modified by RAWB, 1:02 PM 2/28/2003]

B18Ccivic

you should seriously spend the $65 and get a helms manual. I have such a total understanding of my engine now that I bought it. It has step by step instructions with illustrations of doing the rings. Also the gaps differ based on type of ring be sure to use the gap specs that come with the rings. If you use factory rings then the ones in the manual are ok. They would have been too tight for the ones I bought. Also I screwed up. I don't know where I got the 600 grit number from. The factory spec is 400 grit. I must have read it somewhere else. btw I got mine all put back together at about 1:30 AM and it actually ran perfect. I was so totally scared to start it. Now well see if it will hold up and fix the oil burning problem.

T3

Just what I wanted to hear..Ill do my own honing.

What about those building block books?They work the same or just to get the job done?

Bizarre

Another newbie question but how can you adjust the gap? Do you just hone it more if there is too little? Sorry about the new questions. Thanks

T3

http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/endgap/endgap.php

B18Ccivic

You file the ends of the rings. I used a honing stone and it worked great. Proceedure would be to put the ring in the bore, square it with the piston and then measure. If the gap is too small or there is no gap (that should be the case with new rings) take them out and file them a little then repeat proceedure until the gap is correct. My oil rings gap was ok out of the box but the 1st and 2nd ring need a fair amount of filing. the oil ring gap is much less important and I assume thats why it wasn't so tight to begin with. Incidentally my oil consuption problem is gone and the engine seems to run perfectly so I guess my ring job worked.

Todd