Slater

I know this sounds stupid, but apparently the HKS GT turbo kit for Miatas has them set up the turbo oil drain into the stock dipstick tube (with a 't'). And their dipstick tube isn't any larger in diamater than ours.

Personally, I think it's waaay too small, not to mention dangerous, but I was curious what other thought. I mean, lots of Miata owners run it this way with no problems whatsoever, and HKS wouldn't have recommended it if it wasn't effective or didn't provide enough drain capacity.

Here's a pic (horrible pic):



Also, here's some Miata chaps discussing using that drain style on other kits:

http://pub47.ezboard.com/fgreddyqand...icID=503.topic

Also, I forgot to mention you remove your dipstick and just keep it capped off with a rubber nipple to provide max flow in the tube. To check your oil level you just pop off your cap can insert the dipstick.

If you think about it, this setup makes a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. It also makes no sense for other reasons haha

- Slater


[Modified by Slater, 1:56 AM 2/20/2003]

MikeMAN

very interesting! i await the "pros" responses!

mike

Tinker219

im for it...why didnt I even think about this? Itll drain fine in my opinion.....its not like you are running an 8 inch thick hose into a 1 inch thick hose...actually its quite opposite, 3-an into approximately 6 an...
no more ******* up oil pans for me(unless somebody strongly disagrees and shows proof as to why not(besides the dipstick not being there)).

MikeMAN

would this even work for a b-series? its my understanding that it runs right down the front of the middle of the block? does the tube unbolt?

mike

falcongsr

aren't our dipsticks are pressed/stamped into the block? i'd rather mess up an oil pan than a block.

MikeMAN

thats what i thought

Slater

Well, Honda dipstick tubes are just like most other cars including Mazdas (pressed into the block).

HKS provides a brass T, 2 small hose couplings, and some hose clamps. They instruct you to carefully cut a small section out of your dipstick tube (with hacksaw, dremmel, etc) and put the T in it's place. Supposedly it's idiot proof, although I would stick a little nylon rope down the tube so when you cut it the shavings don't fall into the pan. Then when your done pull the rope out.

Anyways, the only thing you have to be careful of is not making the tube longer than it was. In other words, if the brass T is 2" long you have to make sure to cut out 2" of dipstick tube. That way, when you put the T in and bolt everything back up, the dipstick stays the same length and your oil level remains accurate when you check it with the dipstick.

I also thought of an easier method than the rubber couplings and hose clamps. Just use a brass T with compression fittings. That would seal tighter and be easier IMO as long as you can match up the correct size compression fitting. I just did some plumbing work with a compression brass T and it was like $3 at Home Depot.

- Slater


[Modified by Slater, 2:22 AM 2/20/2003]

Sleepin'

Very interesting!! I'd like to hear more on this.

SpeedMonkeyRacing

call me stupid..but how you going to check if your oil's low?

Jeff-

JeremyL

just wait for the little genie lamp to light up lol j/k

this actually seems like a really good ideao, would like to hear some more opinions tho

Farnsrocket

I don't think this will work very well with a B series motor. It's bad enough getting a straight down shot to the oil pan from the turbo now, I can't imagine connecting it about 3 or 4 inches higher on the block. Plus, -10AN to whatever the dip stick tube is (-4AN?) seems wrong.

turb

as slater said, there is a some sort of a rubber nipple that you take the cap off and stick the dipstick in in case you need to check on your oil level.

but the dipstick tube is pretty high up the block so this would depend on the turbo's placement in order to work. the turbo should be mounted above the dipstick tube in order to drain properly by gravity. what do you guys think?

this is indeed interesting.

Tinker219

if your turbo is high enough, I would think you could just run the line down to the tube, and connect it with a freaking hose clamp.
As for checking the oil...well...um I dont have oil in the engine for more than 1,000 miles between changes, so if the oil level drops enough to be concerned with, then Something isnt right anyway.

badCRX

There's a guy here in town that has used the freeze plug at the very bottom left of the front side of the block as his return hole.

He gave a good idea that since he rebuilds his engine every so often, the return line doesn't get in the way and have to be removed since its not attached to the oil pan.

Any thoughts on that?

Smashback

He leaves his turbo on when he rebuilds his engine? I can't imagine anyone doing this unless all they are doing is rings and bearings which isn't really a rebuild. Seems silly unless you're so lazy that you think not having to disconnect a single solitary hose is saving you a lot of trouble.

I really can't see this oil drain thing working out well. The dipstick tube is so small I think you are going to have oil backing up in the turbo and getting pushed out the seals, and into the intake and exhaust.

falcongsr

i guess that might work for the H series turbos where the manifold puts the turbo up near the valve cover. but i dont know where the dipstick is on those.

krazy

this is what i was thinking. wouldnt it be more dangerous for the turbo if the oil has to work its way up and then back down a small tube. the regular return lines are about maybe a foot at most, and they are drained pretty fast i would think.

slater: is this the same slater that used to be on darksol? and that came up with howto for the DIY CAI? i noticed ur business url in ur sig so i figured it was.

krazy

Slater

Hey krazy - yeah, that's me.

teamdelsol said the DIY CAI article was the biggest bandwidth hog on their site - it was always throwing them over their allocated bw so they had to remove it. I was thinking of rewriting the article and hosting it on our site. It's a little out of date since I originally made that how2 and I have done dyno testing and other improvements since then. I also have some other articles that can be used for a "tech" section or something, similar to c-speed.

Anyways, as far as the turbo drain line, the drain on the Miata kit is pretty short, just like it would need to be on Hondas. The dipstick tube T ends up being right near the bottom, so it would only need to go through a few inches of line to get to the tube.

I still have a bad feeling that the tube isn't going to be big enough at some point, but like I mentioned it's supposedly plenty big for 1.8L Miata guys. Someone needs to step up and be the guinea pig and try it out ;0)

- Slater

krazy

yea that was a great how-to. other sites started to link off it too. it was a matter of time when it would kill the servers. any tips for making intercooler piping?

are u planning to go turbo or something? i have seen 2 posts here about turbo items. about the dipstick thing, wouldnt it be harder to back to stock if u ever took the turbo out? i mean welding the block, im not even sure thats possible.

krazy

Slater

Yeah, you should be able to follow the same method - order up some u-bends and a few 90s, and chop n' weld. Steel would work better than alum - cheaper, stronger, easier to weld, and better thermal properties.

nah, just leave the T and cap it off, or install a small section of straight tubing in it's place. I am going to drive my car until the wheels fall off, so I am not worried about putting it back to stock. When the motor finally poops out I will just rebuild. So I won't let the "hard to put back to stock" fear keep me from doing something like a little brass T.

- Slater

Brandon

On the F22's they bolt on, so I guess that the F22 is even more so the red headed stepchild of the Honda bunch.

tony1

Steel has better thermal properties than aluminum for intercooler piping????

Full-Race Javier

for IC piping AL is by far a better choice than any Steel. AL is a better conductor than steel......good to have as the charge piping on a FI car(removes more heat). high thermal conductivity means its a good conductor. low thermal conductivity means it's more of an insulator.

Thermal conductivity
Pure AL=237 W/m K
Plain Carbon Steel=60.5 W/m K
304 Stainless=14.9 W/m K (mani material)

Slater

Yeah, I was referring to steel from it's insulation properties. You're right in that Alum is a better conductor.

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post

- Slater


[Modified by Slater, 2:27 AM 2/21/2003]

Full-Race Javier

AL is better, but mild steel is much cheaper and.... yes, easier to weld