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(Please look at the Diagram, I've circles the parts in question)
I need guidance on the timing belt drive drive pulley and the washer(s) that go around it.
I have a B16 I'm currently rebuilding, and I'm at the point were I'm putting the timing belt on, but I have a specific question with the drive pulley.
The diagram I have show one washer on the back side. That is good, because I only have one washer. However, on other diagrams like on ALL DATA, shows two washers, one on each side?! Since I only have one washer, I'm assuming that one washer goes on the backside.
About the drive pulley, according to the diagrams, there are two kinds out there. One with a flange on one end, and another that is just flat from end to end. The one I have has a flange.
The diagram I've attached show the drive pulley with the flange, and that is pointed toward the block. However, the TDC mark on the pulley and the oil pump do not match when the flange is toward the block, but matches when you turn it around opposite from what the digram tell me to do.
So two question...
1. How many washers should I have, where do I put it, behind or in front of the pulley?
2. Is the flange on the pulley toward the block, or away?
I know this is the D series diagram. The Honda service manual I have for the Civic only shows this for the exploded view on the timing belt... so I'm assuming the D and B series engine ultimately share the same parts?
you should have 2 washers this is what keeps the timing belt aligned. if you have an obd2 motor the outer washer will look like that one with the teeth this is for the crank sensor. i can't remember what the obd1 washer looks like but u should have 2 washers that kind of do this )( with the timing belt between them
It is a OBD2 engine, coming off a 2000 Si. Yeah, the other diagram showed the washer was the same. And the concave going a certain direction.
If I only had one washer, then why the flange on the drive pulley. It seems that is there to hold the timing belt on, to take the place of the 'second' washer. I've attached a picture of the flange on the drive pulley I have.
The "dpetro1" diagram does show again that the flange is away from the block. Just like my diagram shows.
The TDC mark on the drive pulley is on the non-flange side. I matched the TDC markings perfectly with the oil pump and drive pulley with the flange toward the block with Piston 1 at TDC! The TDC markings will not line up with the flange away from the block. So theoretically the diagram is showing the pulley (part #12) to be backwards?
The diagram I just attached for TDC marks shows the marking visible ... so the flange has to be toward the block?!
All, thank you for you help thus far. You're input if invaluable!!!!
i understand what you are saying but the pulley needs to be installed like the diagrams show to hold the belt on. i guess im not really understanding why you cant line up the mark if you flip the pulley
I see what you are saying... but I'm thinking of it this way. Piston 1 is TDC. The drive pulley has a key, so it can only go on one way.
When the flange is toward the block, the marks line up. But drive pulley is on backwards from diagram.
If the flange is away like the diagrams says it goes, the pulley mark is about 10 degrees to the right of the oil pump mark when the crank is in the same position. So from here, I guess I could just install the belt and pray. But if anything goes wrong, I'm starting all over.
I see what you are saying... but I'm thinking of it this way. Piston 1 is TDC. The drive pulley has a key, so it can only go on one way.
When the flange is toward the block, the marks line up. But drive pulley is on backwards from diagram.
If the flange is away like the diagrams says it goes, the pulley mark is about 10 degrees to the right of the oil pump mark when the crank is in the same position. So from here, I guess I could just install the belt and pray. But if anything goes wrong, I'm starting all over.
my only question would be, how do you know piston 1 is at tdc? are you using a screwdriver on top of the piston or something? 10* is minimal and might be hard to eye-ball. i would go by the pulley and oil pump marks
Yeah, I did figure out TPC with a screwdriver on Piston 1. The mark is seriously off when the flange is away from the block. In relation to a clock, the oil pump mark is 11, the mark on the pulley is about 1 or 2. So yeah, that would be way more than 10 degrees.
I find it very ironic with piston 1 TDC, and the lining up with the marks, with the drive pulley backwards to the diagram.
I can take a closer picture... but I'll have to do that tonight. The picture you have is the general idea. Except my oil pump mark is more to the left side from center, and the pulley mark is a straight line engraving.
And, get this. The oil pump mark is always showing around 1 o'clock on the diagrams, when mine is around 11 o'clock! So if the flange is AWAY the block (like the diagrams show), the marking on the pulley would line up. But we all know there is only one way to put the oil pump on!
I'm going to take some pictures to show soon... stay tuned.
I think I got it. My picture shows how it should go on. The reason I know this now is because the CKS sensor, once mounted is perfectly aligned with the teeth of the flange on the timing belt drive pulley.
The sensor sits in the craves that you see circled.
According to the diagrams, it shows the drive pulley being backwards. Also, the TDC mark on the oil pump and CKS sensor are on the left (exhaust side), not the right.
well im sure you are probably good. are you positive that there arent any markings on the actual flange of the pulley like the pic i posted? or is the only mark the one you circled?
heythe first diagram looks like a D15/D16 Single cam engine. I would not reccomend going by that schematic.
And Most of these guys just "guided" me through my major malfunction which was a simmilar posting in the TECH forum. Your engine appears to be slightly diffrent than mine, being that i have a OBD 1 and your is OBD2 i can clearly see diffrence already in these photos. My Oil pump cam gear sprocket is slightly cocked to the left as well. Looks like by Deptrol posting of pics, The cam sprocket with teeth is on backwards, Im guessing this is correct, being that i have the Other version which is depicted by just Conical seated washer,Sprocket,Conical seated washer. The one person had it correct with the )( part it has a slight lip ( i actually cleaned and polished mine) saw how it held them in place and looked like the little amount of rubber or dirt build up on it would create a rub on side of belt. Just cleaned wit laquer and a new terry cloth to bring up shiny. back to w.e i would say yea there is 2 ways to install. One with a crank sensor and one with out. Mine does not have big bulky mechanical thing to left. my crank mark is to left.
Looks to me like the diagram is correct. It would make sence that it holds the belt on. Hope it all works out and what not.
well im sure you are probably good. are you positive that there arent any markings on the actual flange of the pulley like the pic i posted? or is the only mark the one you circled?
There are no markings on the flange side of the drive pulley. That's what drove me to question the reassembly. The only mark on the pulley the one I circled.
And the old oil pump is identical to the new one, so I know the TDC mark hasn't moved.
Thank you for all your help guys! I hope this post helps others in the future. The Honda manual is nice, but you always have to question its integrity.
Since I'm only this far on the rebuild... I'm sure I'll be back with other weird *** questions. Thanks again!
ok you are not crazy!!! found this factory diagram for b16 del sol, it shows three timing pulley combinations
looks like you have had it correct the whole time. hope this helps ease your mind a bit
Iam in the same situation. B16A2 out of a 00 em1. it goes sproket... then the guide is facing out? if it faced in I would think it would rub on the belt?
If you dont install that washer correctly your timing belt will walk on the cam gears and rub against the valve cover! You must look at the install guide in the manual to see which side of the concaved washer goes towards the timing belt.
Pick up a haynes manual from the auto store its like $20 has all this covered step by step.
I have the service manual from honda. the problem is that its not model specifc, just 96-00 civic. I know the SI is different from thats in the book..
There is a section in that manual for the DOHC shortblock. The drawing will show the proper orientation, which is the crank timing gear with the CKF teeth facing the oil pump/block and the timing belt follower (washer as you put it) is placed over the crankshaft snout with the rounded edge facing the timing belt.
01-20-2010, 06:51 AM
B16 Timing Belt Installation
