DEPintheCurve

Okay so I was surfing the web at work today and found this link from howstuffworks.com after reading about grenades exploding underwater... The link took me to this page: http://www.hybridwaterpower.com/?hop=cyberspot

Is this legit? I could have sworn someone posted a thread on here, but could not find it... I am s skeptical about this, but I can swear I have heard someone talking about it, and if someone on here has done it and seen results I wanna try it. I have a feeling my mini-me is going to be the test subject though.... It "claims" to improve performance, but I guess I will believe it when I see it....

LittlesilverEF

Lol I'm not a scientist, but I call bullshit.

D16SiHatch

no, it does not work

please let these stupid hho threads die

blasterman87

works great, just like the little tornado intakes you buy for 19.95... if it worked so good we would have heared of it years ago...

sikefcrx89

iTrader: (1)

x2

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

it improves mpg if you make sensor changes, but if you don't it can actually make it run richer and lower mpg.
also depends on the type of 'cell' you build for electrolysis.
i know for a fact that there are ppl doubling their gas mileage with them. look it into it, it's cheap to build and there is more info about it everyday. i am in process of building one for my crx

88Hatchy

You are delusional. In theory it will work, but there is just too much energy lost to make it efficient. It takes a LOT of hydrogen to run an internal combustion engine. If it worked cars would come from the factory with the system.

The more money you put into the system, the more money you waste. Just do a tune-up with the money you would spend on the system.

Just a FYI: There isn't a person on earth doubling their gas mileage with any additive, device, or kit on the market, or any significant gains that would offset the cost of such a thing.

Luv2Huvr

You should watch Mythbusters. That was BUSTED last year.

D16SiHatch

true.. but i don't think they were as thorough as they could have been. i kinda hope that they redo this myth and explain in much more detail why these "HHO" systems do not and cannot work.

pimpwagon

you wont double it. my friends dad put one in his 2gen trans am with a 400 olds motor and pulls 18 around town with it now. he was getting 13 before. this is an otherwise stock, clean, properly running car he drives on nice days. it really makes me want to start messing with it.....

fireant

If they worked we'd all have them by now.

zrickety

iTrader: (1)

there was a car built in the 1920's that ran completely on water...look it up. another guy converted a 70's Ford LTD to run on gas or water. if the oil companies can charge us $4 a gallon or more, why would they let anyone use this technology? that's why you'll never see it until we are out of gas completely.

and mythbusters tried one design...there are many ways to produce hydrogen or HHO. i am not necessarily saying we can run on hydrogen alone (which mythbusters did for a minute), but with the right mods it can really help.

i am building a cell i hope to run the end of next month. i will post results

sleepingciv

iTrader: (2)

jpciii

my old neighbor was running one of these setups in a 93 civic automatic that had over 300,000 miles. He said his mileage improved by about 6-7 mpg, so he put another setup into his old truck and that improved the mpg also (don't remember how much)

88Hatchy

There is such a thing as the placebo effect. If you want it to be true then you will subconsciously find ways to make it appear true, i.e. driving more economically.

88Hatchy

The only engine in the 1920s that ran on water was a steam engine.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to convert an internal combustion engine to run on water. Especially a pushrod Ford engine.

This is you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_CbuQKT8SU

0ne-Cam

bahahah... hah

Spikes_Del_Sol

You guys in here claiming mythbusters busted it.
They didn't even do it right, I.E no electrolyte added to water.
ALSO you claiming that too much energy is used to create the HHO..
MY unit only uses about as much power as your average car stereo deck.
MIND YOU old fashioned folks, you forget, HHO CELLS do not put out inefficient petrol, they create a highly combustible gas which is...

H2o seperated by electrons, and is the gas form of water, Hydrogen x2 and Oxygen x1 atoms. When supplied through the AIR INTAKE of your common vehicle the end result is an improvement of efficiency. Highly combustible HHO acts as a catalyst for gasoline. Additionaly this process results in a cleaner engine, being that the main byproduct of HHO is water (after combustion) and thus in effect "steam cleaning" your cylinders and header. I would also like to agree with Zrickety, sensor changes play an enormous role in improving MPG. HHO makes gas burn more efficient leaving less unburned fuel to be vaped by the cat, when the o2 sensor analyzes this data it richens up the combustion cycle. The most common way to debug this is the EFIE electronic fuel injection enhancer which modifies the o2 sensors signal to the ECU and LEANS out the engine to compensate.

Indeed you will see an increase in performance, definately in the low end torque. Also a smoother running engine, quieter and more efficient. You will not see unburnt gasoline dripping out my tail pipe anytime in the future!
I drive a 93 del sol s 1.5 L MT, curb weight 1967
DC sport headers, Cold Air intake Spectre, 160 degree thermostat, no ac unit/power steering,
Acura CL rims. Went from a consistent avg 30 mpg to around 45-50 depending on driving conditions.

Believe what you want to, I'm the one saving money.

rbwdriven

I read about this years ago.

After deciding that it was a waste of my time and money. I'm a degree'd engineer and also design equipment to analyze particles.

So with that being said I decided to do something different with my rex.

I changed over to E3 plugs, new cap and rotor and that is it.

I also changed my driving style (shift point from 3.5k to 2.5k).

I'm now averaging 38+ mpg out of my 88 crx si.

Technically bone stock (352k) on the body and motor.

I've only got a cold air kit and bigger flowing exhaust (just to help the car breathe).

riverrunner06

Hi,

I first looked at this thread to see if I could find some info. As with many posts on this subject I have found a lot of people that disclaim any benefit from the system. I can relate to these. I too have had doubts of this type of system being of use to enhance fuel efficiency.

I have done research online. Looked at dozens of designs. Read hundreds of pages of pros and cons covering the subject. Then one day while conversing with a co-worker, (I am an Auto Tech of over 30 years) who is a trainer for a large Corp. of auto repair facilities, he related his experience with the HHO generator. He disclosed that he has personally added a unit to his 04 Expedition 5.4l gas powered engine and his fathers 02 F-350 Power Stroke Diesel engine. Using the quart mason jar and wire design he claims a 3 mpg gain on the gas truck and 4 mpg gain on the diesel.

This in mind I decided to venture into this for myself. I have had mixed results. First I tried to run the generator without any other mods. I refined my electrolyte to gain some results. I found that the baking soda mixture would draw large amperage and left a brown residue (not desirable). I finally found that lye produces a very nice volume of gas with a minimal draw and no residue.

I also found that my fuel economy dropped by 5 mpg on average. So I purchased an EFIE and installed it with not much better results. I would be interested in responses that may shed light on the subject. I know what each sensor does, i.g. the O2 sensor reads the volume of oxygen by generating a voltage of 0.2v - 0.8v which the ECM interprets to adjust fuel injector pulse width and the MAP sensor varies a 5v reference to report engine load, the crank shaft sensor reports engine RPM. With all of this input the
ECM calculates the proper fuel input to achieve stoichiometric mixture.

Yes I do know how the system should work and what should take place. I am not sure why adding the "floating voltage" of the EFIE did not bring my fuel economy back in line. Or at least not to the point of being as fuel efficient as prior to adding HHO. I am producing roughly 1 lpm, which is below what I have read to be optimal. I have read that a weak O2 can result in this. I have not yet taken the time to read voltages at different points of the circuit.

The system has been removed from my car and I am seeing mpg in the range prior to installing. Although I would like to realize an improvement in mpg, I am also interested in the cleansing benefit of the HHO and cleaner exhaust. A boost in performance would be nice as well.

So if anyone reading this post would like to add to this, I welcome positive input. I am not interested in negative responses and will ignore them. I do believe I have read just about every argument against the idea, yet I am still interested in playing with it.

thank you for your time.

hondasdohc

Man You guys got to understand why putting HHO gas in a your vehicle knowing that the o2 sensor plays the biggest part in the HHO myth/fact. If knowing that the o2 sensor sends signal from itself to the ecu back to the o2 then why not trick it into thinking that the ecu is reading stoich or lean as that's when you will increase gas mileage the most. Doing that and adding the HHO gas on top of a lean mixture you will see miracles happen right before your eyes no joke. It acts like a catalyst so that fuel and HHO mixed together will burn more efficiently up to 90% more than average gas combustion which is at 10-20%. Understanding both science and understanding why the car works the way it does will only give you an explanation as to why and how can i increase my gas mileage?. Think about it that HHO stuff is no joke obviously they did turn the car on with HHO gas in myth busters not saying that they just proved HHO works.....BUT THEY JUST PROVED THAT HHO GAS WORKS.

riverrunner06

Ok, I understand the O2 plays the biggest factor... why did I not get better results with the EFIE? I set it to put 0.45v floating in the circuit and the end result was the same as when it was set at 0.20v. I also agree that, at least in theory, leaning the base fuel system (gasoline in this case) and adding the HHO, the results should be 5 - 15% improved fuel economy of gasoline consumed. And that is due to the HHO acting as a catalyst, as you say. I know that Hydrogen is a very ignitable fuel and Oxygen is an accelerator. Adding the mix should result in an excellent burn. The problem is that the calibration of the ECM is not set for such and believes the system is too lean due to the higher volume of Oxygen seen in the exhaust gases. That is why just adding HHO will actually cause the system to run too rich.

Now, how to properly deal with this. Adding the EFIE, in theory, should accomplish this. Adding a floating voltage to compensate for the extra O2. As happens, it did not in my case. Could that be due to a weak O2 sensor? Or could it be something else? I am sure I could experiment enough and find a solution. Does anyone already have an idea or solution for this?

I think that is where the originator of this thread was headed. Perhaps it would be nice to answer that question?

hondasdohc

In any HHO conversion you should have the o2 sensor practically eliminated without pulsing the 0.45v. Not sure if it works this way but what about a chipped ecu eliminating the o2 sensor have a lean tune and then add the HHO?. Also why don't you try the o2 extender simulator buy a new o2 sensor and apply the HHO but at least 2lpm cause i doubt 1lpm helps.

riverrunner06

The first thing to understand is that we are not discussing a "conversion". To run on straight HHO would require a massive system that would draw huge amounts of energy to operate. I am only interested in a suplimental system that will enhance the gasoline system. I am looking to allow the fuel injection system to operate much the same as designed, only leaner. Say the stoichiometric setting from 14.7:1 to 16:1 or 16.5:1. I want the system to compensate as it was designed to in order to keep drivability and performance. So eliminating the O2 sensor would defeat that purpose.

Secondly, as stated prior, I have read that 1 lpm per 1 liter displacement is approximately ideal for this to occur. And with all that is known about the O2 sensors functions and how it reacts to oxygen, adding more HHO should result in more O2 present in the exhaust, thus pushing the needed leaning of the fuel system further towards a ratio that could be detrimental should a failure occur. Also this adjustment would be very advantageous as "adjustable on the fly" to make compensations as needed until all the bugs are worked out.

Perhaps the "chipped ECU or ECM" would be the answer... just how to achieve all that has been mentioned. Such as being a variable adjustment easily attained. I had read that the EFIE I had integrated into the system needs a strong O2 sensor to function properly.

typemismatch

All of this debate seems to focus on an unmodified EFI system. I'm not sure of the costs involved in the HHO system, but wouldn't you see better gains on a stock motor [Honda] with a chipped ECU tuned for mileage?

I've read of people getting 30+mpg avg out of B18s with I/H/E and a re-tune. I am personally planning on learning to chip and tune this summer with this purpose in mind. I have a kick around Vx EG with the D15Z1 that I plan on tuning the fuel trim for mileage.

Once you have a chipped ECU, couldn't you just set the stioch higher, to say 15:1, to run the HHO mod?