EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
04-29-2009, 08:42 PM
#1
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Preface: I worked on the EGR port clean out task finally on my 1991 Accord EX. I tried to used some 6" pry bars that I found at the hardware store to keep from having to remove the fuel rail or the IAVC and the FITV. These tools did not work. The fuel rail, FITV and IACV needed to come out, if nothing else, so that they don't get damaged, due to the force required to remove or install the egr plugs. No short cuts here.
Bigger pics:If you want to see any of the pics at full resolution, here is the url where I am keeping them. Any pic with a _1 is reduced in size for this thread. The others are full res. I wasn't sure if it was ok or not to post larger pics. So I went with 640 x 480 shots. http://rotordesign.com/accord/egr/
Here are the links to the other helpful egr threads that I found. They all offer something. You should read them all.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/cleaning-iacv-fitv-tb-1844067/
http://www.************.com/forums/s...d.php?t=265488
http://************.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253704
http://www.************.com/forums/s...d.php?t=275440
http://www.************.com/forums/s...d.php?t=308500
http://hondaaccordforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3687
No Carb cleaner!! I think using can after can of carb cleaner to dissolve carbon in the egr ports is very hard on the O2 sensor and the Cat. So I carefully used bailing wire for cleaning out the tunnels between ports and the ports themselves. Also a drill bit works great for cleaning out the clogged egr ports. Only use the bit by hand!! Don't use a drill motor!! This style of egr port cleaning resulted in zero smoke coming from the tail pipe. The car takes about 5 seconds more cranking time because the fuel rail is empty and unpressurized. The car ran great the instant it started.
Slide Hammers: Bondo makes two sizes of slide hammer. Get the larger of the two. I could not get some of the egr plugs out with the small slide hammer. In this pic, I used the larger weight on the smaller slide hammer. Just buy the larger slide hammer. You will need the right size drill bit for the sheetmetal screws.
Warning!! The screws that come with the slide hammers are crap!! They break easily. The head diameter of the ones you buy at the hardware store are too large and have to be turned down to fit inside the slide hammer collet, but are stronger. Mine broke while screwing them into the egr plug. The hole I drilled was too small. Size it right.
Make sure your slide hammer has heads on the screws. The ones that came with the large slide hammer had no head on them. Usually they are a Phillips head.
Your hood: Don't use the Honda prop rod to hold your hood up. Find something else to hold your hood far higher than normal. Otherwise when you pull out an egr plug you can dent the bottom of your hood when the plug suddenly pulls out, allowing the slide hammer handle to hit the hood. I was not using that much force to pull out the plugs and I hit the hood twice.
Clean out: Get a vacuum cleaner and adapt a 3/8 inch outside diameter hose to it with duct tape. This works great for vacuuming out drill filings and loose carbon deposits.
EGR port cleanout:
1) Let the car cool off over night. It also allows the fuel pressure to drop in the fuel rail so less is spewed all over the engine during disassembly.
2) Loosen or remove your gas cap.
3) Remove return fuel line and vacuum hose from fuel pressure regulator, on the end of the fuel rail.
4) Pull the PCV valve and hose out of the valve cover.
5) Remove the 3 bolts from the FITV valve. This allows room so that the fuel pressure regulator can be removed with the fuel rail.
6) Remove the two bolts with a 10mm socket that holds the fuel injector wiring harness to the fuel rail. Then remove the 3 nuts that hold the fuel rail to the intake manifold. Remove the IACV electrical connector. Leave the wiring harness in place, but pull it out of the way a little, and lift out the fuel rail. Carefully lay the fuel rail over to one side so it's out of the way. Watch out for the ends of the injectors!
7) Remove the 2 bolts with a 12mm socket that hold the IACV in place. Leave the coolant hoses attached to both IACV and FITV.
8)Gently pull both valves out of position and use something like bailing wire to hold them out of the way. This gives needed clearance for the removal and installation of the port plugs.
9) Now it's time to start removing the egr port plugs. Mine were aluminum. Some are brass. Both are easy to drill out. Make sure you have several drill bits available. Getting the hole the right size is important so that the screw from the slide hammer goes in snug but not so tight that you snap the head off. See my note above regarding which size of slide hammer to use for egr plug removal.
10) The egr port itself is just a hole in the bottom of each passage. Getting every spec of carbon out is just not neccessary. This car had 207,000 miles and the ports were still only half plugged. This pic shows one of them cleaned out and ready for new plugs. A piece of bailing wire with the 3/8" long end bent 90 degrees, worked great to clear out the carbon buildup above and below the small hole. Bailing wire used between egr ports worked well too. A drill bit twisted by hand worked great for cleaning the carbon out of the small hole itself.
Using the 3/8" outside diameter hose duct taped to my vacuum, worked great as removing the carbon deposits knocked loose with the bailing wire. This tube reached the aluminum shavings that found their way onto the top of the intake manifold.
Have your EGR port plugs and egr valve gasket ready to go.
I found that taking this old bolt and making a shoulder on it to fit the egr plug, held the plug in place much better when the hammer hit the bolt. I found that using a 3-5 lb sledge hammer gently, gave me better install control than a regular 1lb claw hammer with lots of muscle. The first couple of tries without this tool sent a couple of plugs flying.
The egr plugs I got from Honda were in fact steel. This is a parts magnet holding itself and a plug against a steel beam in my garage.
EGR Valve removal:
Here is how I had to get one of the egr valve nuts off. Not much room. A socket with a swivel would not fit either egr valve nut. A 12 point 12mm wrench with leverage was needed. I have the egr plugs installed already.
Someone had replaced the egr valve and it's gasket once before. The manifold surface was sanded smooth. Just a quick vacuuming out of both holes and the egr valve port was done.
Here is what I used to clean the egr valve itself.
First apply vacuum to the egr valve, to lift the pintle off of it's seat. This allows the carb cleaner to do it's job better. Ooops! I just said carb cleaner! Yes, this is where I used a little carb cleaner. But blowing out the valve while it was open removed all of the carb cleaner. This is in line with my goal to better protect the o2 sensor and Cat from being fouled with carb cleaner.
Pull the vacuum pump off of the egr valve a few times as well. It will help clean the seat off while the seat is still wet with carb cleaner. Scrape off any old gasket material from the egr valve and it's seat on the intake manifold.
Here is a home made broken screw extractor tool. It's just a piece of aluminum drilled at both ends so the sheet metal screw that the slide hammer uses, will thread into this nicely. Then the slide hammer threads into the top of it. That way a broken screw can be removed at the same moment an egr plug is removed.
Reinstallation:
Reinstall the egr gasket, valve and nuts.
Inspect fuel injector ends to make sure you didn't damage them or contaminate them.
Make sure the injector recesses on the fuel rail are clean!!!!
Carefully work the fuel rail back into position. It won't just fall back into place.
Hand install the 3 fuel rail nuts. Leave them 1 turn loose.
Gently twist each fuel injector back and forth 1/8" in each direction to seat the o-rings correctly. Mine leaked like a sieve until I did this.
Tighten the center nut first, then alternately tighten the end nuts on the fuel rail. This pattern helps the o-rings also seat well.
Bolt the injector wiring harness onto the fuel rail with the two bolts using a 10mm socket. Barely tighten them with your ratchet.
Now bolt the FITV and IACV back onto the intake manifold. Check that the o-rings are in place and are not contaminated. New o-rings are not a bad plan.
Reconnect the vacuum line and return fuel line back to the fuel pressure regulator.
Put the PCV valve back in place into the valve cover.
Start the engine and use a flashlight to check for fuel leaks!
Note: The car will take several more seconds to start than normal since the fuel rail is empty and not pressurized. Plus the engine will miss a couple of beats for about 1 second.
Results: So far with 140 miles since the egr task was finished, pure perfection! The car no longer hesitates or bucks on acceleration. It might even idle a tiny bit smoother. Now I have to chase down the intermittent hard starting issue and the intermittent surging idle issue. I've started separate threads to cover these next two items.
Bigger pics:If you want to see any of the pics at full resolution, here is the url where I am keeping them. Any pic with a _1 is reduced in size for this thread. The others are full res. I wasn't sure if it was ok or not to post larger pics. So I went with 640 x 480 shots. http://rotordesign.com/accord/egr/
Here are the links to the other helpful egr threads that I found. They all offer something. You should read them all.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/cleaning-iacv-fitv-tb-1844067/
http://www.************.com/forums/s...d.php?t=265488
http://************.com/forums/showthread.php?t=253704
http://www.************.com/forums/s...d.php?t=275440
http://www.************.com/forums/s...d.php?t=308500
http://hondaaccordforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3687
No Carb cleaner!! I think using can after can of carb cleaner to dissolve carbon in the egr ports is very hard on the O2 sensor and the Cat. So I carefully used bailing wire for cleaning out the tunnels between ports and the ports themselves. Also a drill bit works great for cleaning out the clogged egr ports. Only use the bit by hand!! Don't use a drill motor!! This style of egr port cleaning resulted in zero smoke coming from the tail pipe. The car takes about 5 seconds more cranking time because the fuel rail is empty and unpressurized. The car ran great the instant it started.
Slide Hammers: Bondo makes two sizes of slide hammer. Get the larger of the two. I could not get some of the egr plugs out with the small slide hammer. In this pic, I used the larger weight on the smaller slide hammer. Just buy the larger slide hammer. You will need the right size drill bit for the sheetmetal screws.
Warning!! The screws that come with the slide hammers are crap!! They break easily. The head diameter of the ones you buy at the hardware store are too large and have to be turned down to fit inside the slide hammer collet, but are stronger. Mine broke while screwing them into the egr plug. The hole I drilled was too small. Size it right.
Make sure your slide hammer has heads on the screws. The ones that came with the large slide hammer had no head on them. Usually they are a Phillips head.
Your hood: Don't use the Honda prop rod to hold your hood up. Find something else to hold your hood far higher than normal. Otherwise when you pull out an egr plug you can dent the bottom of your hood when the plug suddenly pulls out, allowing the slide hammer handle to hit the hood. I was not using that much force to pull out the plugs and I hit the hood twice.
Clean out: Get a vacuum cleaner and adapt a 3/8 inch outside diameter hose to it with duct tape. This works great for vacuuming out drill filings and loose carbon deposits.
EGR port cleanout:
1) Let the car cool off over night. It also allows the fuel pressure to drop in the fuel rail so less is spewed all over the engine during disassembly.
2) Loosen or remove your gas cap.
3) Remove return fuel line and vacuum hose from fuel pressure regulator, on the end of the fuel rail.
4) Pull the PCV valve and hose out of the valve cover.
5) Remove the 3 bolts from the FITV valve. This allows room so that the fuel pressure regulator can be removed with the fuel rail.
6) Remove the two bolts with a 10mm socket that holds the fuel injector wiring harness to the fuel rail. Then remove the 3 nuts that hold the fuel rail to the intake manifold. Remove the IACV electrical connector. Leave the wiring harness in place, but pull it out of the way a little, and lift out the fuel rail. Carefully lay the fuel rail over to one side so it's out of the way. Watch out for the ends of the injectors!
7) Remove the 2 bolts with a 12mm socket that hold the IACV in place. Leave the coolant hoses attached to both IACV and FITV.
8)Gently pull both valves out of position and use something like bailing wire to hold them out of the way. This gives needed clearance for the removal and installation of the port plugs.
9) Now it's time to start removing the egr port plugs. Mine were aluminum. Some are brass. Both are easy to drill out. Make sure you have several drill bits available. Getting the hole the right size is important so that the screw from the slide hammer goes in snug but not so tight that you snap the head off. See my note above regarding which size of slide hammer to use for egr plug removal.
10) The egr port itself is just a hole in the bottom of each passage. Getting every spec of carbon out is just not neccessary. This car had 207,000 miles and the ports were still only half plugged. This pic shows one of them cleaned out and ready for new plugs. A piece of bailing wire with the 3/8" long end bent 90 degrees, worked great to clear out the carbon buildup above and below the small hole. Bailing wire used between egr ports worked well too. A drill bit twisted by hand worked great for cleaning the carbon out of the small hole itself.
Using the 3/8" outside diameter hose duct taped to my vacuum, worked great as removing the carbon deposits knocked loose with the bailing wire. This tube reached the aluminum shavings that found their way onto the top of the intake manifold.
Have your EGR port plugs and egr valve gasket ready to go.
I found that taking this old bolt and making a shoulder on it to fit the egr plug, held the plug in place much better when the hammer hit the bolt. I found that using a 3-5 lb sledge hammer gently, gave me better install control than a regular 1lb claw hammer with lots of muscle. The first couple of tries without this tool sent a couple of plugs flying.
The egr plugs I got from Honda were in fact steel. This is a parts magnet holding itself and a plug against a steel beam in my garage.
EGR Valve removal:
Here is how I had to get one of the egr valve nuts off. Not much room. A socket with a swivel would not fit either egr valve nut. A 12 point 12mm wrench with leverage was needed. I have the egr plugs installed already.
Someone had replaced the egr valve and it's gasket once before. The manifold surface was sanded smooth. Just a quick vacuuming out of both holes and the egr valve port was done.
Here is what I used to clean the egr valve itself.
First apply vacuum to the egr valve, to lift the pintle off of it's seat. This allows the carb cleaner to do it's job better. Ooops! I just said carb cleaner! Yes, this is where I used a little carb cleaner. But blowing out the valve while it was open removed all of the carb cleaner. This is in line with my goal to better protect the o2 sensor and Cat from being fouled with carb cleaner.
Pull the vacuum pump off of the egr valve a few times as well. It will help clean the seat off while the seat is still wet with carb cleaner. Scrape off any old gasket material from the egr valve and it's seat on the intake manifold.
Here is a home made broken screw extractor tool. It's just a piece of aluminum drilled at both ends so the sheet metal screw that the slide hammer uses, will thread into this nicely. Then the slide hammer threads into the top of it. That way a broken screw can be removed at the same moment an egr plug is removed.
Reinstallation:
Reinstall the egr gasket, valve and nuts.
Inspect fuel injector ends to make sure you didn't damage them or contaminate them.
Make sure the injector recesses on the fuel rail are clean!!!!
Carefully work the fuel rail back into position. It won't just fall back into place.
Hand install the 3 fuel rail nuts. Leave them 1 turn loose.
Gently twist each fuel injector back and forth 1/8" in each direction to seat the o-rings correctly. Mine leaked like a sieve until I did this.
Tighten the center nut first, then alternately tighten the end nuts on the fuel rail. This pattern helps the o-rings also seat well.
Bolt the injector wiring harness onto the fuel rail with the two bolts using a 10mm socket. Barely tighten them with your ratchet.
Now bolt the FITV and IACV back onto the intake manifold. Check that the o-rings are in place and are not contaminated. New o-rings are not a bad plan.
Reconnect the vacuum line and return fuel line back to the fuel pressure regulator.
Put the PCV valve back in place into the valve cover.
Start the engine and use a flashlight to check for fuel leaks!
Note: The car will take several more seconds to start than normal since the fuel rail is empty and not pressurized. Plus the engine will miss a couple of beats for about 1 second.
Results: So far with 140 miles since the egr task was finished, pure perfection! The car no longer hesitates or bucks on acceleration. It might even idle a tiny bit smoother. Now I have to chase down the intermittent hard starting issue and the intermittent surging idle issue. I've started separate threads to cover these next two items.
Last edited by mikep_95133; 01-10-2012 at 05:44 PM.
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05-10-2009, 07:21 AM
#2
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Hello everyone,
I cannot find the same sliding hammer as on this post. Can I use the one from Harbor Freight Tools as linked below? I never used a sliding hammer before. Any pointers would be appreciated.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=5469
Are you removing the fuel regulator, fuel rail, IACV, and FITV, b/c you need room to remove the EGR valve? Is it really necessary if you are just cleaning the EGR ports?
I have a 1990 Honda Accord LX, I think my car only have 4 ports right from what I see.
Thanks,
I cannot find the same sliding hammer as on this post. Can I use the one from Harbor Freight Tools as linked below? I never used a sliding hammer before. Any pointers would be appreciated.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=5469
Are you removing the fuel regulator, fuel rail, IACV, and FITV, b/c you need room to remove the EGR valve? Is it really necessary if you are just cleaning the EGR ports?
I have a 1990 Honda Accord LX, I think my car only have 4 ports right from what I see.
Thanks,
05-10-2009, 11:11 AM
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Thread Starter
Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Hello everyone,
I cannot find the same sliding hammer as on this post. Can I use the one from Harbor Freight Tools as linked below? I never used a sliding hammer before. Any pointers would be appreciated.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=5469
Are you removing the fuel regulator, fuel rail, IACV, and FITV, b/c you need room to remove the EGR valve? Is it really necessary if you are just cleaning the EGR ports?
I have a 1990 Honda Accord LX, I think my car only have 4 ports right from what I see.
Thanks,
I cannot find the same sliding hammer as on this post. Can I use the one from Harbor Freight Tools as linked below? I never used a sliding hammer before. Any pointers would be appreciated.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...temnumber=5469
Are you removing the fuel regulator, fuel rail, IACV, and FITV, b/c you need room to remove the EGR valve? Is it really necessary if you are just cleaning the EGR ports?
I have a 1990 Honda Accord LX, I think my car only have 4 ports right from what I see.
Thanks,
I was able to leave the fuel regulator attached to the fuel rail as you can see in the pics. But it was absolutely necessary to remove the fuel rail, FITV and IACV to get to all 6 of the ports. Otherwise you risk the chance of damaging these parts from using the slide hammer and your regular hammer when putting them back in. There is not enough room. I really wanted to leave all of those parts in place, but they would have been damaged. It's fairly easy to do. Read what I wrote carefully first. I tried to include the important details. Also read all the other posts I listed. Each person has great insight as to what is important. It sure helped me.
There is one egr port plug for each intake runner and two for the cross over ports. 6 total. There are even one on each end of the intake manifold that are hard to get out and I doubt really needed to removed.The plugs you missed are hiding slightly under the fuel rail.
Mike
05-10-2009, 06:05 PM
#4
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
That slide hammer kit is a bit on fancy side. As long as it has an attachment for holding a #8 or #10 sheet metal screw, then it's useful. My slide hammer was from Kragen/Oreilly auto parts, made by Bondo. Available every where. Often called a dent puller.
I was able to leave the fuel regulator attached to the fuel rail as you can see in the pics. But it was absolutely necessary to remove the fuel rail, FITV and IACV to get to all 6 of the ports. Otherwise you risk the chance of damaging these parts from using the slide hammer and your regular hammer when putting them back in. There is not enough room. I really wanted to leave all of those parts in place, but they would have been damaged. It's fairly easy to do. Read what I wrote carefully first. I tried to include the important details. Also read all the other posts I listed. Each person has great insight as to what is important. It sure helped me.
There is one egr port plug for each intake runner and two for the cross over ports. 6 total. There are even one on each end of the intake manifold that are hard to get out and I doubt really needed to removed.The plugs you missed are hiding slightly under the fuel rail. The fuel rail and other fuel part removal is scaring me. I have remove the FITV and IACV before. Do you have to bleed the coolant after put back the FITV and the IACV? Was draining of the coolant involve in this procedure?
Thanks,
Mike
I was able to leave the fuel regulator attached to the fuel rail as you can see in the pics. But it was absolutely necessary to remove the fuel rail, FITV and IACV to get to all 6 of the ports. Otherwise you risk the chance of damaging these parts from using the slide hammer and your regular hammer when putting them back in. There is not enough room. I really wanted to leave all of those parts in place, but they would have been damaged. It's fairly easy to do. Read what I wrote carefully first. I tried to include the important details. Also read all the other posts I listed. Each person has great insight as to what is important. It sure helped me.
There is one egr port plug for each intake runner and two for the cross over ports. 6 total. There are even one on each end of the intake manifold that are hard to get out and I doubt really needed to removed.The plugs you missed are hiding slightly under the fuel rail. The fuel rail and other fuel part removal is scaring me. I have remove the FITV and IACV before. Do you have to bleed the coolant after put back the FITV and the IACV? Was draining of the coolant involve in this procedure?
Thanks,
Mike
Do you have the part number from Kragen? I got one near me, I'll buy it from there.
Thanks.
05-11-2009, 08:03 AM
#6
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Hello,
How much is that Sliding hammer at Kragen?
Also, do I need any replacement gaskets for this job other than the EGR valve gaskets? I got replacement o-rings for the FITV and the IACV. How about when removing the fuel rail and other areas.
Thanks,
How much is that Sliding hammer at Kragen?
Also, do I need any replacement gaskets for this job other than the EGR valve gaskets? I got replacement o-rings for the FITV and the IACV. How about when removing the fuel rail and other areas.
Thanks,
05-11-2009, 08:41 AM
#7
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Thread Starter
Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
The fuel rail removal did not require o-ring replacement in my case. But it easily could while doing this repair. I could not get separate o-rings in time for doing the work. I was careful and the injector o-rings were not damaged from the removal of the fuel rail. If you can find them new, it would be good to install new ones. I really wanted to avoid messing with the injectors at all. So far my fuel injectors do not leak at all. Mileage is fine.
I also did not replace the FITV or IACV o-rings as well. But you made a good decision to do so. Were they very pricey?
So far you are on a better path using new o-rings, but don't toss the old ones away in case you need them in an emergency. O-rings do tend to last a longer than gaskets if you have to re-use an old one.
Mike
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05-11-2009, 08:45 AM
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
The slide hammers were something like $13 and $18 each.
The fuel rail removal did not require o-ring replacement in my case. But it easily could while doing this repair. I could not get separate o-rings in time for doing the work. I was careful and the injector o-rings were not damaged from the removal of the fuel rail. If you can find them new, it would be good to install new ones. I really wanted to avoid messing with the injectors at all. So far my fuel injectors do not leak at all. Mileage is fine.
I also did not replace the FITV or IACV o-rings as well. But you made a good decision to do so. Were they very pricey?
So far you are on a better path using new o-rings, but don't toss the old ones away in case you need them in an emergency. O-rings do tend to last a longer than gaskets if you have to re-use an old one.
Mike
The fuel rail removal did not require o-ring replacement in my case. But it easily could while doing this repair. I could not get separate o-rings in time for doing the work. I was careful and the injector o-rings were not damaged from the removal of the fuel rail. If you can find them new, it would be good to install new ones. I really wanted to avoid messing with the injectors at all. So far my fuel injectors do not leak at all. Mileage is fine.
I also did not replace the FITV or IACV o-rings as well. But you made a good decision to do so. Were they very pricey?
So far you are on a better path using new o-rings, but don't toss the old ones away in case you need them in an emergency. O-rings do tend to last a longer than gaskets if you have to re-use an old one.
Mike
Should I used Honda OEM O-ring or Kragen ones ok?
Thanks,
05-11-2009, 09:22 AM
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Mike
Last edited by mikep_95133; 01-10-2012 at 12:32 AM.
05-15-2009, 01:25 AM
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Reinstallation:
Reinstall the egr gasket, valve and nuts.
Inspect fuel injector ends to make sure you didn't damage them or contaminate them.
Make sure the injector recesses on the fuel rail are clean!!!!
Carefully work the fuel rail back into position. It won't just fall back into place.
Hand install the 3 fuel rail nuts. Leave them 1 turn loose.
Gently twist each fuel injector back and forth 1/8" in each direction to seat the o-rings correctly. Mine leaked like a sieve until I did this.
Tighten the center nut first, then alternately tighten the end nuts on the fuel rail. This pattern helps the o-rings also seat well.
Bolt the injector wiring harness onto the fuel rail with the two bolts using a 10mm socket. Barely tighten them with your ratchet.
Now bolt the FITV and IACV back onto the intake manifold. Check that the o-rings are in place and are not contaminated. New o-rings are not a bad plan.
Reconnect the vacuum line and return fuel line back to the fuel pressure regulator.
Put the PCV valve back in place into the valve cover.
Start the engine and use a flashlight to check for fuel leaks!
Note: The car will take several more seconds to start than normal since the fuel rail is empty and not pressurized. Plus the engine will miss a couple of beats for about 1 second.
Results: So far with 140 miles since the egr task was finished, pure perfection! The car no longer hesitates or bucks on acceleration. It might even idle a tiny bit smoother. Now I have to chase down the intermittent hard starting issue and the intermittent surging idle issue. I've started separate threads to cover these next two items.[/QUOTE]
by removing iacv, coolant comes out..do i need to bleed cooling system?
Reinstall the egr gasket, valve and nuts.
Inspect fuel injector ends to make sure you didn't damage them or contaminate them.
Make sure the injector recesses on the fuel rail are clean!!!!
Carefully work the fuel rail back into position. It won't just fall back into place.
Hand install the 3 fuel rail nuts. Leave them 1 turn loose.
Gently twist each fuel injector back and forth 1/8" in each direction to seat the o-rings correctly. Mine leaked like a sieve until I did this.
Tighten the center nut first, then alternately tighten the end nuts on the fuel rail. This pattern helps the o-rings also seat well.
Bolt the injector wiring harness onto the fuel rail with the two bolts using a 10mm socket. Barely tighten them with your ratchet.
Now bolt the FITV and IACV back onto the intake manifold. Check that the o-rings are in place and are not contaminated. New o-rings are not a bad plan.
Reconnect the vacuum line and return fuel line back to the fuel pressure regulator.
Put the PCV valve back in place into the valve cover.
Start the engine and use a flashlight to check for fuel leaks!
Note: The car will take several more seconds to start than normal since the fuel rail is empty and not pressurized. Plus the engine will miss a couple of beats for about 1 second.
Results: So far with 140 miles since the egr task was finished, pure perfection! The car no longer hesitates or bucks on acceleration. It might even idle a tiny bit smoother. Now I have to chase down the intermittent hard starting issue and the intermittent surging idle issue. I've started separate threads to cover these next two items.[/QUOTE]
by removing iacv, coolant comes out..do i need to bleed cooling system?
05-15-2009, 05:50 AM
#11
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
you can always hope that the air gets flushed out on it's own, but it's better to bleed it out because if it gets in the fast idle thermo valve it will stay there, and you'll have idle problems
05-15-2009, 06:10 AM
#12
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
by removing iacv, coolant comes out..do i need to bleed cooling system?
Where did the coolant come from?? If it's inside the valve where it's attached to the intake manifold, really sounds like an internal leak.
Removing the hoses from the valves may mean that you have to bleed the cooling system.
Mike
05-15-2009, 09:15 AM
#13
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Maybe my car is different, but I never saw any coolant come out of a valve unless I took the hoses off of the valve.
Where did the coolant come from?? If it's inside the valve where it's attached to the intake manifold, really sounds like an internal leak.
Removing the hoses from the valves may mean that you have to bleed the cooling system.
Mike
Where did the coolant come from?? If it's inside the valve where it's attached to the intake manifold, really sounds like an internal leak.
Removing the hoses from the valves may mean that you have to bleed the cooling system.
Mike
05-11-2010, 10:05 AM
#14
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
I was thinking of just removing the EGR valve to clean it then reinstall and do the ports another day but I cannot get the bolts off. I have used the wobble short extension, also the crowfoot wrench type socket to a 3/8 ratchet with no luck. I sprayed some WD40 on the bolts but no luck. Anyone else got any ideas?
Anyone lives near Fullerton, CA 92833 that can give me a hand?
What is the torque value to reinstall the EGR valve bolts?
Thanks.
Anyone lives near Fullerton, CA 92833 that can give me a hand?
What is the torque value to reinstall the EGR valve bolts?
Thanks.
Last edited by Bad_dude; 05-11-2010 at 11:02 AM.
05-12-2010, 08:12 AM
#15
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
One important question guys, I have a 1990 Accord LX 4AT, maintained well, at how many miles this service should be done? It seems like most owners here are doing this at over 200,000 miles and mine is only at about 141K.
The minor that I am having is the car runs fine but when I get on the freeway, at about 45MPH and up when I plunge the gas pedal slightly, the car seems to bog down until I release the gas pedal a bit then it pick up instantly then goes good from there on.
By the way, it looks like my car has 6 ports instead of 4, is that right?
Thanks,
The minor that I am having is the car runs fine but when I get on the freeway, at about 45MPH and up when I plunge the gas pedal slightly, the car seems to bog down until I release the gas pedal a bit then it pick up instantly then goes good from there on.
By the way, it looks like my car has 6 ports instead of 4, is that right?
Thanks,
05-12-2010, 08:57 PM
#16
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
I cannot get the bolts for the EGR valve off. I have used wobble extension socket, PB Blaster, Rubber mallet, and warm the car up and the bolts won't budge.
Any other ideas?
For the ports, does a sliding hammer really needed? Some guy did it without it.
Thanks.
Any other ideas?
For the ports, does a sliding hammer really needed? Some guy did it without it.
Thanks.
06-21-2010, 03:31 PM
#17
Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
My only question is does anyone know if I need to apply silicone below the gasket? It appears that there was gasket on there that I am taking off and am unsure if I need to RTV it?
06-23-2010, 01:28 AM
#19
Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Oh my god, after finishing off my other two egr ports and cleaning out the egr valve, after having done my lower tube seals and valve adjustment(to the t might I add), my car is running practically brand new. I have never dreamed a 1991 car can run and idle so perfectly before. This is insane. I also bought a torque wrench and took back my new rotors I bought after I put on a set of rotor over hub conversion wheelbearings and hub that warped 'cause I didn't evenly torque the lugs , then torqued the wheels to 80 and now SLOWLY worked the new rotors in, my car is fcking insane now. There is no hesitation AT ALL. Period. No stalling, no nothing. This car is basically brand new. Crazy. It's so easy for new rotors to warp again if you don't evenly torque the lug nuts. Keep that in mind. Also, I think rotors as they break in, expand, contract, expand, and contract during the first couple hundred miles and really need to ran soft so they don't warp. They need to be able to contract nice and tight so that they are even and straight. My rotors were fcked in about 300 miles of driving 'cause I didn't do it right the first time around.
Oh, regarding the egr valve, I didn't use a vacuum pump at all. I just used some carb cleaner and kept the connector at the top at all times while I sprayed into the valve and the pin and I pushed on the ring on the diaphram to open it so that I could scrape all the carbon out and just moved the pin by way of the diaphram ring in and out so that I knew it was smooth. I also sprayed some in the actually egr valve port after using the pick to gently take apart all the carbon in there before I blew it out, then used the carbon cleaner to spray in, then used some blow off can air to blow it dry. The egr valve clearly just gets full of carbon and almost sticks completely closed without being able to move. As long as I kept the connector at the top it was almost impossible for it to get wet since gravity keeps the liquid from it.
Oh, regarding the egr valve, I didn't use a vacuum pump at all. I just used some carb cleaner and kept the connector at the top at all times while I sprayed into the valve and the pin and I pushed on the ring on the diaphram to open it so that I could scrape all the carbon out and just moved the pin by way of the diaphram ring in and out so that I knew it was smooth. I also sprayed some in the actually egr valve port after using the pick to gently take apart all the carbon in there before I blew it out, then used the carbon cleaner to spray in, then used some blow off can air to blow it dry. The egr valve clearly just gets full of carbon and almost sticks completely closed without being able to move. As long as I kept the connector at the top it was almost impossible for it to get wet since gravity keeps the liquid from it.
06-23-2010, 03:56 AM
#21
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Did you use the sliding hammer to remove your EGR port plugs or did you drill it out? Did you have to remove your fuel rail to get to the ports? Did you have a hard time to remove the bolts on the EGR valve?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Oh my god, after finishing off my other two egr ports and cleaning out the egr valve, after having done my lower tube seals and valve adjustment(to the t might I add), my car is running practically brand new. I have never dreamed a 1991 car can run and idle so perfectly before. This is insane. I also bought a torque wrench and took back my new rotors I bought after I put on a set of rotor over hub conversion wheelbearings and hub that warped 'cause I didn't evenly torque the lugs , then torqued the wheels to 80 and now SLOWLY worked the new rotors in, my car is fcking insane now. There is no hesitation AT ALL. Period. No stalling, no nothing. This car is basically brand new. Crazy. It's so easy for new rotors to warp again if you don't evenly torque the lug nuts. Keep that in mind. Also, I think rotors as they break in, expand, contract, expand, and contract during the first couple hundred miles and really need to ran soft so they don't warp. They need to be able to contract nice and tight so that they are even and straight. My rotors were fcked in about 300 miles of driving 'cause I didn't do it right the first time around.
Oh, regarding the egr valve, I didn't use a vacuum pump at all. I just used some carb cleaner and kept the connector at the top at all times while I sprayed into the valve and the pin and I pushed on the ring on the diaphram to open it so that I could scrape all the carbon out and just moved the pin by way of the diaphram ring in and out so that I knew it was smooth. I also sprayed some in the actually egr valve port after using the pick to gently take apart all the carbon in there before I blew it out, then used the carbon cleaner to spray in, then used some blow off can air to blow it dry. The egr valve clearly just gets full of carbon and almost sticks completely closed without being able to move. As long as I kept the connector at the top it was almost impossible for it to get wet since gravity keeps the liquid from it.
Oh, regarding the egr valve, I didn't use a vacuum pump at all. I just used some carb cleaner and kept the connector at the top at all times while I sprayed into the valve and the pin and I pushed on the ring on the diaphram to open it so that I could scrape all the carbon out and just moved the pin by way of the diaphram ring in and out so that I knew it was smooth. I also sprayed some in the actually egr valve port after using the pick to gently take apart all the carbon in there before I blew it out, then used the carbon cleaner to spray in, then used some blow off can air to blow it dry. The egr valve clearly just gets full of carbon and almost sticks completely closed without being able to move. As long as I kept the connector at the top it was almost impossible for it to get wet since gravity keeps the liquid from it.
06-23-2010, 06:54 AM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Yes you have to remove the fuel rail
If you remove the fuel rail it will make taking the EGR valve off easier. Remember that if you started to remove the nuts with an Imperial sized socket you have probably rounded it off. All Honda fasteners are metric. So if you have rounded off the nuts there are a few things you can try. You could hammer the next size smaller metric socket onto the nut and see if that works. Or you could try and buy a set of those new Grip-Tite sockets from Autozone/Canadian Tire.
06-23-2010, 03:28 PM
#23
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Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
I don't own a CB so I'm not sure about the EGR plugs. However, it would seem that using a slide hammer would be the best way to keep from dropping metal shavings into the intake port.
Yes you have to remove the fuel rail
If you remove the fuel rail it will make taking the EGR valve off easier. Remember that if you started to remove the nuts with an Imperial sized socket you have probably rounded it off. All Honda fasteners are metric. So if you have rounded off the nuts there are a few things you can try. You could hammer the next size smaller metric socket onto the nut and see if that works. Or you could try and buy a set of those new Grip-Tite sockets from Autozone/Canadian Tire.
Yes you have to remove the fuel rail
If you remove the fuel rail it will make taking the EGR valve off easier. Remember that if you started to remove the nuts with an Imperial sized socket you have probably rounded it off. All Honda fasteners are metric. So if you have rounded off the nuts there are a few things you can try. You could hammer the next size smaller metric socket onto the nut and see if that works. Or you could try and buy a set of those new Grip-Tite sockets from Autozone/Canadian Tire.
06-23-2010, 09:35 PM
#24
Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
There are three screws that come with the slide hammer I bought. I used those, they will work fine. Assuming that drill bit sizes are pretty much universal, I started using a drill bit that was fairly smaller than the size of the screw and that didn't work since when I screwed the screw in it was squishing the sides of the plugs so hard that I couldn't get the plugs to come out. However, this is before I bought a slide hammer to work. Be that as it may, just use the biggest drill bit you have that is smaller than the screw. Now, when you drill into the plug, make sure you have grease on the tip. Not too much, just enough. Then when you drill you will have bits coming off obviously. I basically went in about an eight of an inch or so and stopped and cleaned off the tip. And so on until I got through. I don't see how some people say that you want to try not going through the plug. It's so small, imo, that you basically want to go through, however when you do make sure you pull it out so that you don't have pieces of the metal plug in the intake. One thing that strangely worked for me is that mine were indeed fouled but this essentially stopped the bits from falling in. I bought a 4 pack of picks that will in handy getting the carbon loose. I don't know about drill bits. Just seems like ur asking for trouble using them to scrape loose the carbon. I think the pick set was like 10 bucks. When you wind up getting through, you can put a trace amount of grease on the tip of the picks to pull out any loose shavings that fell in when you get the plugs out. Now, attach the screw that came with the slide hammer to the end and tighten it up. Then screw the screw into the hole. Oh, one more thing, I actually offcentered a few of the holes to the extent that they were really close to the sides of the plugs and created like a small sleave. I thought that when pulling out the plugs it might break off the edge since it was so small, but it didn't. I think these plugs are pretty strong so if aren't exactly in the middle with the hole, you're still gonna be ok. Back to the screws, when you got the screw tight on the slide hammer, you're gonna screw that in the hole. Make sure it goes through the plug. Then, looking at the first pic again, remembering that I used the one on the top, that big red thing in the middle is gonna slide. You just bang that a couple times from the bottom position to the top position and the plug will start coming out. I think it took about 4 to 5 taps to get the plugs to come out.
With the fuel rail slid to the right, you can get to the egr valve so I did. Regarding the bolts, the close one I was able to get a socket on it just enough to get it loose.The back one, like I said before, I had to use a box wrench 12mm to get that one loose. It was pretty tough. When I put the bolts back I swapped the bolts from front to back and back to front since the front bolt was still in perfect condition and it would be harder to get that off in the back in the future. I guess you're only other option if the grip-tite don't work is vice-grips. Just make sure that's the last resort and you get em off because there's no going back after using vice-grips. Vice-grips tend to come in handy when you round off a bolt. I sprayed that back bolt with carb cleaner before I was able to break it loose. Maybe PB blaster will work better.
Like I said before, I did a valve adjustment before and I would say that you guys should do that too. It's actually not that hard, it's just tedious as there's a lot of valves to do and the intakes dont' have a lot of room to work in. Just make sure when you put the feeler guage in that you are absolutely going in straight since if you're at an angle then ur not gonna be at the perfect gap.
I cleaned out the plastic o-rings where the fuel injectors sit as there was carbon in there too and didn't need to do anything to the injector tips. I didn't want to **** anything up anyhow there.
I also cleaned out the carbon from the IACV and the FITV as well as I had just a lil bit clogging them up making sure not to let the sensors get wet at all. I also carbcleanered the spring that controls the throttle.
Last edited by holmesnmanny; 06-23-2010 at 10:10 PM.
06-24-2010, 07:21 AM
#25
Honda-Tech Member
Re: EGR port cleaning without using carb cleaner
Yes, Grip-tite sockets are for worn and rounded bolts. If your bolts are still in good shape use the properly sized metric socket and put some muscle behind that wrench. It will be easier if you have a breaker bar (extension bar) or a longer piece of pipe that you can put over the handle of your wrench to extend it's length. Using an extension helps with leverage and puts more pressure on the bolt.
