afreeclimber

I've reviewed the Chilton manual and the thread on replacing timing belts, but can't find the info I need. I'd hate to assume that all is good and finish up the job, just to tear it all apart again.

1992 Accord LX
Just replaced the timing belt, balance belt, water pump

Here's the issue:
Does the rear balance shaft (the one that get's held in place with a 6mmX100mm bolt) need to be in any specific alignment with it's own timing mark when the other pulleys (cam, crank, front balance shaft) are aligned?
The pulley for the balance shaft has a mark (dot) on it, but I can't find any info that says what it should line up with (if anything). So, just for safety's sake, I made a mark before I took any belts off and now that mark shows the pulley to be off 180deg from before, when I line up everything else to TDC.
Is there something wrong, or am I paying too much attention to a minor detail?


Modified by afreeclimber at 5:25 PM 4/5/2008

casper.hughes

yea there is a acess hole in the back i think 12 mm take it out and put a small screw driver in th hole and turn the balancing shaft until it locks and then allign the other pully and slip the belt on

afreeclimber

Cool. That's what the directions say, but I hate to assume things due to a lack of information.
I guess that balance shaft must be able to lock in two positions, 180deg apart. I guess this makes sense, considering it's a 4cyl motor and one pair of cylinders are 180deg opposed to the other pair as they attach to the crankshaft.

I just got thrown off by the marks on that pulley, since they are not mentioned anywhere!

dleccord

did you take pics

casper.hughes

yea as long as you go the crank and the cam dead on it wont hur any thing but it will shake if the balsncing shafts in time

afreeclimber

No pics. I'm eager to get my car back on the road, so I just about finished the job last night, before it got too dark. Don't want to miss anything because I can't see. I'll start it up today.

I've read some more info on the balance shaft alignment, and it seems to be pretty straightforward; you just lock the shaft with the 6mm bolt and don't worry about it's pulley markings.

I did forget to transfer one rubber seal from the old water pump to the new one. It's "L" shaped and about the size of a nickel and seals against the edge of the lower timing belt cover.

hondadude

the Dot on the rear counter balance pulley should line up with a casting boss at about the 4'O' clock position.

casper.hughes

ok forget that little yellow mark take the access bolt out of the back of the block and stick a screw driver in it turn the rear balancen shaft til it stops and make sure the front pully is alligned with the two timing marks a put ur other crank pully on and the belt remove the screwdriver and put the bolt in and put the rest of it back together trust me i just got done doin that to my car it is about a 2 or 3 hr job to do it all

TouringAccord

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by afreeclimber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess that balance shaft must be able to lock in two positions, 180deg apart. I guess this makes sense, considering it's a 4cyl motor and one pair of cylinders are 180deg opposed to the other pair as they attach to the crankshaft.</TD></TR></TABLE>

no, the balance shaft can only be aligned one way using the bolt. The hole in the shaft for the bolt to pass through is off center so it can only be aligned one way.

TouringAccord

Why not use a second set alignment marks to double check your work? You seem so set against it for some reason though it would only take a few seconds to check.

afreeclimber

Hondadude:
The position shown in your photo for the balance shaft is exactly how I had the shaft aligned/marked before I took any belts off.

However, the timing belt replacement instructions tell you to move the camshaft pulley three teeth to adjust the proper tension BUT don't turn the crankshaft clockwise EVER. So, after tensioning I continued to turn the crank one revolution counterclockwise to get back to TDC. The balance shaft of course sat right where it was (no belt on it at that time).

The instructions on this site and the Chilton manual say NOTHING about lining up any marks on the balance shaft; just insert the locking bolt and you're good to go. That's what I did.

The car is all back together and I drove it yesterday. Most things seem okay. It does sound a little more noisy than before. Also, there is air being forced out between the head and valve cover. I thought it was a manifold leak, but I spayed soapy water on it and the air is coming from the valve cover gasket point. I'll post separately about this one!

afreeclimber

TouringAccord:
I'm confused about this because the balance shaft pulley dot sat at about 4 o'clock with everything set at TDC, before I took any belts off.

After putting all the belts back on, the balance shaft pulley dot sits 180 off, at about 10 o'clock, when everything is at TDC. BUT, I made sure I could still insert the bolt into the access hole up to the 3" mark and I could.

TouringAccord

I assume by the instructions on this site you mean my write-up. No, I didn't use the alignment marks, I only used the long bolt as thats what my Helm manual indicated to use therefor I used it and had no problems. I've actually done a few this way, never using the alignment marks. Not saying to not use them, just that I didn't.

The bolt shouldn't go through 180* off because it should look like this...


When you first took the belts off, you said the alignment marks on the outside lined up correct? Did you then have to rotate the shaft to get the bolt to go through? Or did it go through without having to rotate the shaft/gear?

You said the engine runs a little more noisy now than before. Is that sound like a vibration from the block? Thats my understanding of how it is without or with mistimed balance shafts.

Not sure why you are getting air coming out of the valve cover gasket. In what area are you seeing this? Did you put some Hondabond or other liquid gasket maker into the corners where the valve cover gasket goes over the cam?

afreeclimber

So, yesterday I tore the whole damn thing apart again.

Lined up everything to TDC and the rear balance shaft timing dot was sitting at 10 o'clock. Removed the access hole bolt and inserted a 5.5mm allen wrench (which I taped off at 3" to ensure sufficient depth) which went in all the way.

Popped the balance belt off the tensioner, repositioned the pulley timing dot to 4 o'clock and again inserted the allen wrench, locking the shaft from turning. I played around with this a lot, for several minutes, seeing when I could get the allen wrench in all the way and when I couldn't.

In tune with the first time I set the balance belt, I could get the wrench in at 10 o'clock & 4 o'clock.
I know I was supposed to use a 6mm bolt, but when the 5.5mm allen wrench is locked in, it allows only very slight movement in the shaft (not even 1 tooth of rotation on the pulley).

So I set the timing dot at 4 o'clock and finished up the job. This time I put RTV blue around the entire valve cover gasket, because I saw slight oil leak coming from the back side, behind the cap where oil is added (first time I only put RTV on the 4 points around where the camshaft sits).

The car seemed to run the same, so far as new noises and vibration, but also seemed to get better after a half hour of drive time. Now I would say the car is running smoother.

I don't notice any air leaks coming from the valve cover seal (it was coming from the front, in the middle area, above the exhaust manifold). I did remove the cap from the valve cover while the motor was running and noticed a constant fluctuation between positive/negative pressure. A piece of paper over the hole will vibrate up and down, not being blown away or sucked in.


Modified by afreeclimber at 11:51 AM 4/8/2008