0Bisimoto

Greetings all,
I just finished dyno and track testing with the new AEM pencil coils. They are so amazing. You can run regular spark plug electrodes with them (yea, for NGKs), without the need for special removable "screw tops". An excellent upgrade from the CBR ones that many of us run.





They come in 2 lengths, and all of the kits come with the connector, pins and seals which is pretty much impossible to find when you just order the motorcycle coils like everyone has done in the past.

When combined with the AEM Engine position module (in place of the distributor), it is deadly (in a good way)!



What do you guys think?

ShawnR

1992Si

Nice looking hardware. I'm sure rota92 will be looking into these.

Thanks for doing the testing and proving them out.

.dave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bisimoto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
What do you guys think?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Saw these when I was lurking around on their website the other day. I just wish they had all this stuff back when I had my EMS. I ended up getting rid of it because it'd sometimes lose the signal from the distributor between shifts and stall out. Not good in rush hour traffic.

0Bisimoto

My pleasure.

Never too late to go back, Dave. I may even have a package deal for ya!

1junkycivic

What EMS do they work with?

b18bturbo

finally they added it to there lineup this is aweseom complete setup now from aem

0Bisimoto

Ryan is correct! Thanks.

AEM!

.dave

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bisimoto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Never too late to go back, Dave. I may even have a package deal for ya!</TD></TR></TABLE>

Student loans own my wallet right now.

SOUNDEFFECTS

Is that one of NGK's race plugs with a low profile tip? If they are my buddy uses those on his Methanol Supra and there $40 a piece I believe...crazy expensive.

tony1

Any real data on output of these in comparison to the Honda coils? How's the reliability compared to the OEM Honda counterpart?

tepid1

Bisi,

Do you run the shorts or long pencil's in the F?

What does the B-series use? I would assume long.... The 929RR coils I use are fairly long


Modified by tepid1 at 6:34 PM 3/11/2008

Turbo-charged

are they secured at all or do they just clip onto the plug?


yea a little info on them would be nice rather than just saying they are deadly. i'd be real curious on the reliability of it also.


those injectors that spray into the runners like that scare me haha

ecu, coils, engine position, injector driver, ignition box, you can get damn near everything from aem!

they should sell a super aem that has everything built in so you dont have to run 900 "boxes" to make everything work!


i wonder what the power level is that doing a COP set up becomes necessary.

cluelessmale

iTrader: (1)

how does the AEM tigger work and issue with it? is modding of the AEM box need to use it?

paulzy

iTrader: (1)

nice. So all you would need if you already have an AEM brain is the AEM ignition box, and the AEM cam trigger?

They really should make a super AEM like mentioned

Kings Performance

We have ours on the Red Hatch already, will be testing them tomorrow!!!

Fernando @ CFT

underpressure02

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cluelessmale &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how does the AEM tigger work and issue with it? is modding of the AEM box need to use it?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes you need to change the jumpers on the aem box for the epm module to work. I just got my coils today. to devin.

h22 civic

im in for these

0Bisimoto

Typical coil data:

Primary resistance: 1.20 ohms
Secondary resistance: 9.7k ohms
Maximum voltage: 52,000 Volts
Primary inductance: 2.2mH
Turns ratio: 100:1


The AEM CDI Coils are specifically designed as CDI coils, not inductive coils. This is a very significant fact as you cant compare the two directly.

In a CDI system, the coils do not "output" any energy. They transform the energy that has already been stored in the CDI. The CDI stores some amount of energy in it's capacitor (say 150mJ for example) and then when it is triggered it sends this enegry bursting through the primary side of the coil to ground. The coil is a step up transformer and whatever voltage is applied to it will be stepped up by the turns ratio (say 100:1 for example) and the current will be reduced by the same factor. There is no energy added or lost by the coil (essentially). So if a CDI has 470 volt primary voltage it will deliver a max of 470 * (turns ratio) = 470 * 100 = 47,000 volts maximum. The coil is essentially used as a transformer only. So it is impossible to rate the output of a cdi coil since it will output whatever you input to it. In these cases you rate the output of the CDI itself.

In Inductive ignition systems (most all OEM systems) the coils work totally different. Current is fed through the primary side of the coil and then it is stopped. The primary side has a high inductance which basically means it has alot of inertia and it wants the current to keep flowing. The cessation of current flow causes a huge voltage spike which the transformer sees (same as a CDI) and feeds the spark plug. The bigger the primary inductance the larger the amount of spark energy the coil can achieve, but the longer it takes to charge. The energy output of an inductive coil is a property of the coil itself and is independant of the system driving it. The only thing that matters is the system voltage and if you give it enough time to charge (dwell time) fully.

So in short, inductive systems generate their own primary voltage spike, CDI systems use a CDI box to generate the primary voltage spike. The size and duration of this spike determines the coils power output. So you cant compare a CDI coil and Inductive coils power output directly.


AEM does not manufacture coils in house nor would we even attempt it! AEM contracted with a leading supplier of aftermarket ignition components and they designed and manufacture the coils in their ISO9000 facility. After passing all quality checks each, coil is torture tested for 4 hours on AEM's spark rig to ensure perfect operation.

They secure very nicely to the plug electrode with an audible "click". The rubber boots help keep moisture, and debris out of th spark plug well, and provide a nice cushion at the top of the valve cover.

The cool thing about having a 17:1 compression, 10,200rpm n/a engine is that when something is not reliable, it rears its ugly head quickly. I tested thses coils on the dyno for over 8 hours, and backed it up with some track testing as well. Add that to AEMs torture test..and voila!

No need to fear. If low rpm reversion is your concern, the primary (close to the head) injectors are used at all RPM levels below 4800. After that, thanks to AEMs staged injection feature, I gradually merge in the secondaries, and reduce the primaries for the best atomization possible. The AEM software allows me to do this flawlessly, based upon RPM and throttle position.

T, you are absolutely correct! AEM has excellent performance solutions. My setup is very simple:

1900U box, with universal harness (nice silk screened, labled wires for simplicity of install)
Twin Fire (or MSD DIS-4)
EPM
Pencil Coils

..that adds up to 2 whopping boxes...lol

I even plan on purchasing a unit for my 108hp civic wagon! Using the PnP box, of course.


I run the short coils. I used to run the RR coils as well.


::whew:: I hope that helps.

Runnerdown

Seems like a really nice setup Glad to hear its been working so well, i've been disappointed with the reliabilty on some of aems electronic stuff in the past.

boostedh22a

Has anyone tried AEM's Engine Position Module??

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCa...D=122

0Bisimoto

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedh22a &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has anyone tried AEM's Engine Position Module??
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have...and still do. It is shown in my third pic.

tony1

I'm aware of the difference between an inductive ignition system and a CDI system.

The coil does have an affect on both spark energy and spark duration though. If it didn't, there wouldn't be different CDI coils available.

The great thing about the CBR coils is that they have an extremely long spark duration when paired with a CDI box. This is due to the fact that they are an inductive coil. A CDI coil will have more spark energy, but less spark duration. More times than not, the increased spark duration is more beneficial.

Definitely nice to have another coil option though.

boostedh22a

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bisimoto &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I have...and still do. It is shown in my third pic. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I see now...haha, I guess reading is my friend

0Bisimoto

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm aware of the difference between an inductive ignition system and a CDI system.

The coil does have an affect on both spark energy and spark duration though. If it didn't, there wouldn't be different CDI coils available.

The great thing about the CBR coils is that they have an extremely long spark duration when paired with a CDI box. This is due to the fact that they are an inductive coil. A CDI coil will have more spark energy, but less spark duration. More times than not, the increased spark duration is more beneficial.

Definitely nice to have another coil option though. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree: Many enthusiasts, including myself and AEM have long considered the Nippon Denso pencil coil to be the "ultimate" CDI coil because of this very blend of characteristics. The AEM coil does not try to better them, they just tweaked the 'Denso-style design to make if fit automotive spark plugs and made a longer version for taller heads.

The AEM pencil coils were designed to faithfully reproduce the properties of the 'Denso coils. The primary and secondary resistance and inductance values used were specifically chosen to duplicate the operation of the 'Denso coils. Electrically they are as close to identical as could be made. The only significant internal difference between the ND coils and the AEM coils is the ability to go to 52,000 volts on the secondary side with the AEM coil.

While the ND coil is an inductive coil, it's high RPM operating environment necessitated low inductances and resistances for faster charge times. This actually makes it a "poor" inductive coil. However, its specs park it squarely in between typical CDI coils and inductive coils, giving the best of both worlds.

AEM calls theirs a CDI coil because they do not recommend using it as an inductive coil. It can be used that way but the spark energy would be paltry (19-21mJ, same as the 'Denso) and if you run too much dwell you will blow it up...trust me, I know, as I tested this with the 'Denso units. It's easier to call it a CDI coil and avoid that pitfall entirely.

Great back and forth insights (no pun intended), Tony....that is what makes this forum so great!