Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A Coil On Plug CONVERSION
08-18-2005, 08:08 PM
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Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION
Recently, I’ve been receiving a lot pm’s about the C.O.P (coil on plug) conversion on my car. I haven’t seen a post here on Honda-Tech about how to set it up, so I decided to make one. I’ve done this setup on quite and few vehicles including CompressionFed’s All-Motor race car, and never had a problem.
Let start with the basics.
Q>What is a C.O.P conversion?
A> C.O.P is using one (1) ignition coil per cylinder. There are two (2) types of C.O.P.; direct fire and wasted spark. The following descriptions of direct fire and wasted spark were taken from AEM EFI BASICS V1.3.
“Wasted Spark
Wasted spark systems employ one coil for two cylinders. The term “wasted spark” comes from the fact that each plug fires every engine revolution. On a 4-cycle engine, the piston is at Top Dead Center (TDC) two times for every cycle; once for firing and again during the overlap phase. The wasted spark coil fires one plug Before Top Dead center (BTDC) and another plug just before the overlap phase (at the latest part of the exhaust stroke before the exhaust valve closes). Wasted spark systems have a higher potential for spark intensity because the duty of charging and discharging is split between the coils, which allows for more charge time per coil. Additionally, wasted spark systems build up less heat in the coil, making it more reliable. Wasted spark systems have been in use since the mid 80’s on GM cars and on motorcycles for considerably longer than that. There are no moving parts, no complicated relationships with a cap and rotor to maintain, and they deliver very accurate spark timing. Furthermore, multi-channel
spark amplification systems to enhance spark duration or intensity are available for wasted spark ignition systems.
Direct Fire
Direct fire systems employ one coil on each spark plug and is the most reliable system used today, (this type of system is used on most modern cars). Each coil fires sequentially in the cylinder firing order. The charge time for each coil is twice as long as those of a wasted spark system, which allows direct-fire, coil manufacturers to build compact, lightweight coils that retain sufficient spark energy. There are no moving parts to wear out and no HT leads that will deteriorate. The lack of HT leads in direct fire systems is a major advantage for an EFI-equipped car because there is a very low incidence of noise due to leaking or improperly routed wires. There have been incidences of the terminal from a direct-fire coil (that attaches to the spark plug) cracking and subsequently causing Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) or “noise” to the ECU. This will cause engine operation problems, but it should be noted that these cases are extremely rare.”
Now that we know what the 2 types of C.O.P. are, we can discuss what parts are required to do the conversion.
Parts List:
-Engine Management System (AEM, MoTec, or any other EMS with multiple coil outputs.)
-Ignition Amplifier (AEM C2Di, MSD DIS 2, MSD DIS 4, etc)
-Coils (MSD Blaster Coils, Honda Motorcycle Coils, LS1 Coils, Marine Coils, etc)
I’m going to walk you though setting up a direct fire system using the AEM 1010 box, AEM C2DI and 4 Honda 954 coil sticks. *Please note, setting up a wasted spark configuration is similar to direct fire. Please see schematic for wiring differences.
Install the AEM EMS into the car. The AEM box you are using will determine whether you run direct fire or wasted spark. Some AEM boxes have 2 coil outputs and others with 4. I’m using a 30-1010 box. It has 4 coil outputs. You can find out how many coil outputs you have by going to your hard drive (C:/program files/aem/aempro/instructions After the AEM software is installed in the car you need to decided where you’re going to mount the ignition amplifier and the coils. Once the ignition amplifier and the coils are mounted you can start wiring up the system. For simplicity I just matched the EMS coil outputs and coils to the engine cylinder number. Coil# 1 goes to cylinder #1 and so on and so fourth. Wire the four coil outputs of the EMS to the 4 inputs of the ignition amplifier. Then wire the 4 outputs of the ignition amplifier to the negative side of the coils. Be sure when wiring up your system you soldier all connections and use heat shrink. This ensures good connectivity.
F.A.Q’s
Q>Why would you use a C.O.P. conversion?
A>Hotter Spark, More Accuracy, Eliminate Misfires. Honda distributors are not very accurate past 9,000 rpm’s. Many of todays race cars see 10,000-11,000 rpms regularly.
Q> Can this be setup on Hondata?
A> No. Hondata only uses one (1) coil output
Q>Is this setup for Honda/Acura’s only?
A> No. This can be setup on any vehicle as long as you select the appropriate coils.
Q> Is this reliable?
A>Yes. Most modern cars are set-up using one of these two methods (K-series motors use coil on plug, DSM’s use wasted spark, these are just two examples
Q>Will I see a HP gain?
A> Possibly. Results will vary but I have noticed 2-5whp throughout the power band on several vehicles.
Q> Do I still need my distributor if I do this conversion?
A> Yes. You still utilize the Cam Angle Sensor, and TDC sensor inside the distributor.
C> Can I get rid of the stock distributor?
A> Yes. Several people make Hall-Effect sensors to monitor cam angle. Contact Tony1 or JDogg for setup info.
**Disclaimer**
I am an electronics technician and have been working with electronics for 9 years. You MUST have basic automotive knowledge, understand 12 volt electronics, and understand how to read schematics. D-Tuned will not be held responsible for any damages due to improper install.
EDIT: Pics added.
I want to thank Jay"compressionfed" for all his help with the write up.
Also as I get more questions I will add them to the FAQ's with answers
Modified by D-tuned at 11:41 PM 8/19/2005
Let start with the basics.
Q>What is a C.O.P conversion?
A> C.O.P is using one (1) ignition coil per cylinder. There are two (2) types of C.O.P.; direct fire and wasted spark. The following descriptions of direct fire and wasted spark were taken from AEM EFI BASICS V1.3.
“Wasted Spark
Wasted spark systems employ one coil for two cylinders. The term “wasted spark” comes from the fact that each plug fires every engine revolution. On a 4-cycle engine, the piston is at Top Dead Center (TDC) two times for every cycle; once for firing and again during the overlap phase. The wasted spark coil fires one plug Before Top Dead center (BTDC) and another plug just before the overlap phase (at the latest part of the exhaust stroke before the exhaust valve closes). Wasted spark systems have a higher potential for spark intensity because the duty of charging and discharging is split between the coils, which allows for more charge time per coil. Additionally, wasted spark systems build up less heat in the coil, making it more reliable. Wasted spark systems have been in use since the mid 80’s on GM cars and on motorcycles for considerably longer than that. There are no moving parts, no complicated relationships with a cap and rotor to maintain, and they deliver very accurate spark timing. Furthermore, multi-channel
spark amplification systems to enhance spark duration or intensity are available for wasted spark ignition systems.
Direct Fire
Direct fire systems employ one coil on each spark plug and is the most reliable system used today, (this type of system is used on most modern cars). Each coil fires sequentially in the cylinder firing order. The charge time for each coil is twice as long as those of a wasted spark system, which allows direct-fire, coil manufacturers to build compact, lightweight coils that retain sufficient spark energy. There are no moving parts to wear out and no HT leads that will deteriorate. The lack of HT leads in direct fire systems is a major advantage for an EFI-equipped car because there is a very low incidence of noise due to leaking or improperly routed wires. There have been incidences of the terminal from a direct-fire coil (that attaches to the spark plug) cracking and subsequently causing Radio Frequency Interference (RFI) or “noise” to the ECU. This will cause engine operation problems, but it should be noted that these cases are extremely rare.”
Now that we know what the 2 types of C.O.P. are, we can discuss what parts are required to do the conversion.
Parts List:
-Engine Management System (AEM, MoTec, or any other EMS with multiple coil outputs.)
-Ignition Amplifier (AEM C2Di, MSD DIS 2, MSD DIS 4, etc)
-Coils (MSD Blaster Coils, Honda Motorcycle Coils, LS1 Coils, Marine Coils, etc)
I’m going to walk you though setting up a direct fire system using the AEM 1010 box, AEM C2DI and 4 Honda 954 coil sticks. *Please note, setting up a wasted spark configuration is similar to direct fire. Please see schematic for wiring differences.
Install the AEM EMS into the car. The AEM box you are using will determine whether you run direct fire or wasted spark. Some AEM boxes have 2 coil outputs and others with 4. I’m using a 30-1010 box. It has 4 coil outputs. You can find out how many coil outputs you have by going to your hard drive (C:/program files/aem/aempro/instructions After the AEM software is installed in the car you need to decided where you’re going to mount the ignition amplifier and the coils. Once the ignition amplifier and the coils are mounted you can start wiring up the system. For simplicity I just matched the EMS coil outputs and coils to the engine cylinder number. Coil# 1 goes to cylinder #1 and so on and so fourth. Wire the four coil outputs of the EMS to the 4 inputs of the ignition amplifier. Then wire the 4 outputs of the ignition amplifier to the negative side of the coils. Be sure when wiring up your system you soldier all connections and use heat shrink. This ensures good connectivity.
F.A.Q’s
Q>Why would you use a C.O.P. conversion?
A>Hotter Spark, More Accuracy, Eliminate Misfires. Honda distributors are not very accurate past 9,000 rpm’s. Many of todays race cars see 10,000-11,000 rpms regularly.
Q> Can this be setup on Hondata?
A> No. Hondata only uses one (1) coil output
Q>Is this setup for Honda/Acura’s only?
A> No. This can be setup on any vehicle as long as you select the appropriate coils.
Q> Is this reliable?
A>Yes. Most modern cars are set-up using one of these two methods (K-series motors use coil on plug, DSM’s use wasted spark, these are just two examples
Q>Will I see a HP gain?
A> Possibly. Results will vary but I have noticed 2-5whp throughout the power band on several vehicles.
Q> Do I still need my distributor if I do this conversion?
A> Yes. You still utilize the Cam Angle Sensor, and TDC sensor inside the distributor.
C> Can I get rid of the stock distributor?
A> Yes. Several people make Hall-Effect sensors to monitor cam angle. Contact Tony1 or JDogg for setup info.
**Disclaimer**
I am an electronics technician and have been working with electronics for 9 years. You MUST have basic automotive knowledge, understand 12 volt electronics, and understand how to read schematics. D-Tuned will not be held responsible for any damages due to improper install.
EDIT: Pics added.
I want to thank Jay"compressionfed" for all his help with the write up.
Also as I get more questions I will add them to the FAQ's with answers
Modified by D-tuned at 11:41 PM 8/19/2005
08-18-2005, 08:27 PM
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Re: (Sinner)
Very nice info! My question is, if your still running factory distributor, ie, factory pickups, would you benefit this COP ignition? Thanks, Paul
08-18-2005, 08:38 PM
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Re: (TurboTegB18c)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboTegB18c »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Very nice info! My question is, if your still running factory distributor, ie, factory pickups, would you benefit this COP ignition? Thanks, Paul</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes you do benefit. the benefits are in the FAQ's. so far all the cars I've setup(include my own) still utilize the factory dizzy
yes you do benefit. the benefits are in the FAQ's. so far all the cars I've setup(include my own) still utilize the factory dizzy
08-18-2005, 10:23 PM
#7
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Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (D-tuned)
Very, very nice write-up! This is the type of topics this forum needs, all information and no bs drama.
Now make this a sticky over at the aem boards cause when I was doing my conversion I had to take information from several threads heh.
You might want to post which terminal is positive on the CBR coilsticks
Here is the setup on my car (sorry to be a picture *****, but i posted this in a similiar thread not too long ago) Direct fire using CBR coils along with AEM EMS and C2DI
Now make this a sticky over at the aem boards cause when I was doing my conversion I had to take information from several threads heh.
You might want to post which terminal is positive on the CBR coilsticks
Here is the setup on my car (sorry to be a picture *****, but i posted this in a similiar thread not too long ago) Direct fire using CBR coils along with AEM EMS and C2DI
Trending Topics
08-18-2005, 10:31 PM
#8
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Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (D-tuned)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-tuned »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Let start with the basics.
Q>What is a C.O.P conversion?
A> C.O.P is using one (1) ignition coil per cylinder. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Coil on plug is a coil on a plug. Like above.
Coil per cylinder is coil per cylinder.
Let start with the basics.
Q>What is a C.O.P conversion?
A> C.O.P is using one (1) ignition coil per cylinder. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Coil on plug is a coil on a plug. Like above.
Coil per cylinder is coil per cylinder.
08-19-2005, 04:36 AM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (D-tuned)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D-tuned »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Q>Why would you use a C.O.P. conversion?
A>Hotter Spark, More Accuracy, Eliminate Misfires. Honda distributors are not very accurate past 9,000 rpm’s. Many of todays race cars see 10,000-11,000 rpms regularly. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Just a note, the majority of high rpm misfires with the ems are caused by the signals coming into the ecu. Going with individual coils will not solve anything if the problem is on the input side. You have to replace the signals coming from the dist. with a hall sensor setup. The hall setup is what solves the misfire issues most of the time. Realistically, you could use the hall setup for triggering and still use the distributor to distribute spark, but who would want to do that?
Q>Why would you use a C.O.P. conversion?
A>Hotter Spark, More Accuracy, Eliminate Misfires. Honda distributors are not very accurate past 9,000 rpm’s. Many of todays race cars see 10,000-11,000 rpms regularly. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Just a note, the majority of high rpm misfires with the ems are caused by the signals coming into the ecu. Going with individual coils will not solve anything if the problem is on the input side. You have to replace the signals coming from the dist. with a hall sensor setup. The hall setup is what solves the misfire issues most of the time. Realistically, you could use the hall setup for triggering and still use the distributor to distribute spark, but who would want to do that?
08-19-2005, 05:07 AM
#12
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Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (tony1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Realistically, you could use the hall setup for triggering and still use the distributor to distribute spark, but who would want to do that? </TD></TR></TABLE>
me if its cheaper
</TD></TR></TABLE>me if its cheaper
08-19-2005, 05:24 AM
#13
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Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (wantboost)
That's what we did on Arturbo's car. Only temporary though, he wants to do individual coils, just no money for it right now.
08-19-2005, 05:25 AM
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Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (tony1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Realistically, you could use the hall setup for triggering and still use the distributor to distribute spark, but who would want to do that? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I want to know. I been trying to figure out what I can use with Neptune.
Realistically, you could use the hall setup for triggering and still use the distributor to distribute spark, but who would want to do that?
</TD></TR></TABLE>I want to know. I been trying to figure out what I can use with Neptune.
08-19-2005, 06:15 AM
#15
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Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (Turbocivic94)
As of right now, nothing. The hall sensor will likely never work with any honda ecu. The individual coils, maybe, eventually. I know some people are working on it, but I don't know how the progress is coming. For those of you that can't do the individual coil setup because you are on a honda ecu, the M&W Pro-10 ignition box is the way to go. It's a very good and reliable single channel ignition box that retains the oem dist.
08-19-2005, 06:46 AM
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Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (93LSivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93LSivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Very, very nice write-up! This is the type of topics this forum needs, all information and no bs drama.
Now make this a sticky over at the aem boards cause when I was doing my conversion I had to take information from several threads heh.
You might want to post which terminal is positive on the CBR coilsticks
Here is the setup on my car (sorry to be a picture *****, but i posted this in a similiar thread not too long ago) Direct fire using CBR coils along with AEM EMS and C2DI
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Clean bro. Looks even better in person
Now make this a sticky over at the aem boards cause when I was doing my conversion I had to take information from several threads heh.
You might want to post which terminal is positive on the CBR coilsticks
Here is the setup on my car (sorry to be a picture *****, but i posted this in a similiar thread not too long ago) Direct fire using CBR coils along with AEM EMS and C2DI
</TD></TR></TABLE>Clean bro. Looks even better in person
08-19-2005, 07:13 AM
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Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (Raunch)
Great write up..... it really sucked trying to do this 2 years ago when hardly anyone knew anything about it!
08-19-2005, 08:24 AM
#18
Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (D-tuned)
i love the fact the the DIS and COP allow for longer saturation time for the coils! If i remember correctly DIS with the waste spark was simply incorporated for better emissions since if any HC's were left in the combustion chamber then the waste spark would clean this up; compression and exhaust strokes, right? Still i feel the COP is the best solution; one coil per cylinder. DIS still shares one coil per 2 cylinders. but they are all still better solutions than the ancient distributor method.
08-19-2005, 09:31 AM
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Re: (tuoniz)
here is my setup
I have a turbo b18c1 running wasted spark with four blaster ss coils, 30-1000 box, aem cdi with s1=off s2=off s3=on.
coil #1 neg terminal goes to brown from cdi
coil #2 neg terminal goes to orange from cdi
coil #3 pos terminal goes to pink from cdi
coil #4 pos terminal goes to tan from cdi
coil #1 pos terminal goes to coil #4 neg
coil #2 pos terminal goes to coil #3 neg
coil #3 neg terminal goes to coil #2 pos
coil #4 neg terminal goes to coil #1 pos
white goes to coil output #1 from ems (b4)
green goes to coil output #3 from ems (b3)
yellow and violet is grounded
the 2 reds is switched 12 volts
red power is fused
black is grounded
dwell set up wizard is to cdi all except ford
coils 1,3,6,8 is active because 6 is the wasted spark version of 1 and 8 is the wasted spark version of 3.
spark teeth is set to 24
ign tooth #1 = 12
ign tooth #3 = 6
ign tooth #6 = 0
ign tooth #8 = 18
I have a turbo b18c1 running wasted spark with four blaster ss coils, 30-1000 box, aem cdi with s1=off s2=off s3=on.
coil #1 neg terminal goes to brown from cdi
coil #2 neg terminal goes to orange from cdi
coil #3 pos terminal goes to pink from cdi
coil #4 pos terminal goes to tan from cdi
coil #1 pos terminal goes to coil #4 neg
coil #2 pos terminal goes to coil #3 neg
coil #3 neg terminal goes to coil #2 pos
coil #4 neg terminal goes to coil #1 pos
white goes to coil output #1 from ems (b4)
green goes to coil output #3 from ems (b3)
yellow and violet is grounded
the 2 reds is switched 12 volts
red power is fused
black is grounded
dwell set up wizard is to cdi all except ford
coils 1,3,6,8 is active because 6 is the wasted spark version of 1 and 8 is the wasted spark version of 3.
spark teeth is set to 24
ign tooth #1 = 12
ign tooth #3 = 6
ign tooth #6 = 0
ign tooth #8 = 18
08-19-2005, 09:39 AM
#21
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Re: (b18ccivics)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by b18ccivics »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">here is my setup
I have a turbo b18c1 running wasted spark with four blaster ss coils, 30-1000 box, aem cdi with s1=off s2=off s3=on.
coil #1 neg terminal goes to brown from cdi
coil #2 neg terminal goes to orange from cdi
coil #3 pos terminal goes to pink from cdi
coil #4 pos terminal goes to tan from cdi
coil #1 pos terminal goes to coil #4 neg
coil #2 pos terminal goes to coil #3 neg
coil #3 neg terminal goes to coil #2 pos
coil #4 neg terminal goes to coil #1 pos
white goes to coil output #1 from ems (b4)
green goes to coil output #3 from ems (b3)
yellow and violet is grounded
the 2 reds is switched 12 volts
red power is fused
black is grounded
dwell set up wizard is to cdi all except ford
coils 1,3,6,8 is active because 6 is the wasted spark version of 1 and 8 is the wasted spark version of 3.
spark teeth is set to 24
ign tooth #1 = 12
ign tooth #3 = 6
ign tooth #6 = 0
ign tooth #8 = 18
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Where di you get the cover and how much? b THX
I have a turbo b18c1 running wasted spark with four blaster ss coils, 30-1000 box, aem cdi with s1=off s2=off s3=on.
coil #1 neg terminal goes to brown from cdi
coil #2 neg terminal goes to orange from cdi
coil #3 pos terminal goes to pink from cdi
coil #4 pos terminal goes to tan from cdi
coil #1 pos terminal goes to coil #4 neg
coil #2 pos terminal goes to coil #3 neg
coil #3 neg terminal goes to coil #2 pos
coil #4 neg terminal goes to coil #1 pos
white goes to coil output #1 from ems (b4)
green goes to coil output #3 from ems (b3)
yellow and violet is grounded
the 2 reds is switched 12 volts
red power is fused
black is grounded
dwell set up wizard is to cdi all except ford
coils 1,3,6,8 is active because 6 is the wasted spark version of 1 and 8 is the wasted spark version of 3.
spark teeth is set to 24
ign tooth #1 = 12
ign tooth #3 = 6
ign tooth #6 = 0
ign tooth #8 = 18
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Where di you get the cover and how much? b THX
08-19-2005, 10:08 AM
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Re: Detailed write up.... HOW TO DO A COP CONVERSION (spoolinlude)
Here is the diagram I made for my COP conversion with a 30-1040, direct fire.
08-19-2005, 10:59 AM
#23
