Is it Possible to bypass the Crank-Position-Sensor w/ the Crank-Fluctuation-Sensor?
10-20-2004, 03:19 PM
#1
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Is it Possible to bypass the Crank-Position-Sensor w/ the Crank-Fluctuation-Sensor?
I read that you can use the signal from the ckp to bypass the ckf. Does anyone have first hand knowledge of this? Thanks.
10-20-2004, 05:38 PM
#3
Honda-Tech Member
Re: bypass ckf with ckp? (drdisco69)
CKP-Crank position sensor
CFP-crank fluctuation sensor
The CKF is on obd2 engines and detects misfiring and throws a CEL...
The CKP I BELIEVE is in the distributor with the Cam position sensor...
I dont know if its possible or not...They both use the magnetic pickup, but Im pretty sure the CKF sensor has more teeth.More teeth will give the ecu more signals per revolution than the CKP so I do not think itll work...
But try it,dont take my word for it
CFP-crank fluctuation sensor
The CKF is on obd2 engines and detects misfiring and throws a CEL...
The CKP I BELIEVE is in the distributor with the Cam position sensor...
I dont know if its possible or not...They both use the magnetic pickup, but Im pretty sure the CKF sensor has more teeth.More teeth will give the ecu more signals per revolution than the CKP so I do not think itll work...
But try it,dont take my word for it
08-15-2005, 05:32 PM
#5
Re: bypass ckf with ckp? (dragline)
anyone have any more info ? im swapping a 99 ex civic with a 96 JDM B16. the b16 doesnt have a ckf sensor... i really dont want to have to buy a oil pump sensor and timming belt gear.
08-15-2005, 05:38 PM
#6
Re: bypass ckf with ckp? (EallmotorF)
Quote, originally posted by satan_srv »
anyone? do the CKP and CKF send the same signal?
I just wanted to update that I tried this and it works! It is an easy way to disable the ckf sensor when swapping a non obd2 motor into an obd2 car. Just splice c1 to c4 at the ecu and c11 to c14(not sure if this is necessary or not but I did it) and you are ready to go.
I came up with this idea when I realised that the ckf had 12 points at the crank and I was pretty sure the ckp was 24 at the cam on obd1 and 2 distributors. I searched to see if any one else had tried it and this is the closest post I found to anyone even thinking of it so I am posting it to save everyone else the trouble of swapping oil pumps.
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just found this... what do you guys think ?
anyone? do the CKP and CKF send the same signal?
I just wanted to update that I tried this and it works! It is an easy way to disable the ckf sensor when swapping a non obd2 motor into an obd2 car. Just splice c1 to c4 at the ecu and c11 to c14(not sure if this is necessary or not but I did it) and you are ready to go.
I came up with this idea when I realised that the ckf had 12 points at the crank and I was pretty sure the ckp was 24 at the cam on obd1 and 2 distributors. I searched to see if any one else had tried it and this is the closest post I found to anyone even thinking of it so I am posting it to save everyone else the trouble of swapping oil pumps.
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just found this... what do you guys think ?
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08-15-2005, 10:19 PM
#9
Re: bypass ckf with ckp? (EallmotorF)
I pmed you this back to you but I will post for all to see since I originally made the first breif post.
I dont remembet the exact details but the concept is pretty simple, when the motor is running the ecu is trying to compare the ckf sensor at the crank(which you no longer have) with ckp sensor from the dizzy which both output the same 12 pulses per crank revolution(or 24 per cam revolution) to make sure your timing belt is alligned correctly. All you need to do is to run the wires from the ckp from the distributor to both the ckp and the ckf and the ecu is happy. I dont have a pinout handy and you may want to search for a good obd2 pinout because the pin layout is a little more confusing on these and the pins I posted were only for obd2a, if you are obd2b it will be different. From what I can remember from that old post for obd2a you take the ckf(the crank sensor you dont have) which is pins 1 and 11(11 should be directly below 1) and cut them a few inches from the ecu, then take the ecu side and tap c1 into c4 but make sure the original c4 is still hooked up. Then tap c11 into c14(c14 is directly below c4) leaving c14 hooked up as well. Now the wires for c4 and c14 should go into pins both c1, c4 and c11,c14 respectively. The wires for c1 and c11 on the harness side stay unhooked as they went to the sensor that is no longer there anyways. Hope that clears it up for ya!
I dont remembet the exact details but the concept is pretty simple, when the motor is running the ecu is trying to compare the ckf sensor at the crank(which you no longer have) with ckp sensor from the dizzy which both output the same 12 pulses per crank revolution(or 24 per cam revolution) to make sure your timing belt is alligned correctly. All you need to do is to run the wires from the ckp from the distributor to both the ckp and the ckf and the ecu is happy. I dont have a pinout handy and you may want to search for a good obd2 pinout because the pin layout is a little more confusing on these and the pins I posted were only for obd2a, if you are obd2b it will be different. From what I can remember from that old post for obd2a you take the ckf(the crank sensor you dont have) which is pins 1 and 11(11 should be directly below 1) and cut them a few inches from the ecu, then take the ecu side and tap c1 into c4 but make sure the original c4 is still hooked up. Then tap c11 into c14(c14 is directly below c4) leaving c14 hooked up as well. Now the wires for c4 and c14 should go into pins both c1, c4 and c11,c14 respectively. The wires for c1 and c11 on the harness side stay unhooked as they went to the sensor that is no longer there anyways. Hope that clears it up for ya!
08-16-2005, 03:19 PM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
this is an interesting fix for the CKF sensor problem. I'm gonna try this out on a friends car and see if it works. If it does, I'm going to document this fix on my tech site giving you credit for it, omahaturbocivic, if you don't mind!
08-16-2005, 08:22 PM
#13
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (BlackPhoenix)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlackPhoenix »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey Katman, what's up with the FFSquad website!! I miss looking at the dope JDM Hondas... 
</TD></TR></TABLE>
me is whats up...
I'm a big time website update lagger!
Life's been too busy for me to perform FFS site updates.
Hopefully soon I'll have some stuff updated on there on top of revamping the site...
</TD></TR></TABLE>me is whats up...
I'm a big time website update lagger!
Life's been too busy for me to perform FFS site updates.
Hopefully soon I'll have some stuff updated on there on top of revamping the site...
08-17-2005, 04:30 PM
#15
Honda-Tech Member
Re: bypass ckf with ckp? (omahaturbocivic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by omahaturbocivic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I pmed you this back to you but I will post for all to see since I originally made the first breif post.
I dont remembet the exact details but the concept is pretty simple, when the motor is running the ecu is trying to compare the ckf sensor at the crank(which you no longer have) with ckp sensor from the dizzy which both output the same 12 pulses per crank revolution(or 24 per cam revolution) to make sure your timing belt is alligned correctly. All you need to do is to run the wires from the ckp from the distributor to both the ckp and the ckf and the ecu is happy. I dont have a pinout handy and you may want to search for a good obd2 pinout because the pin layout is a little more confusing on these and the pins I posted were only for obd2a, if you are obd2b it will be different. From what I can remember from that old post for obd2a you take the ckf(the crank sensor you dont have) which is pins 1 and 11(11 should be directly below 1) and cut them a few inches from the ecu, then take the ecu side and tap c1 into c4 but make sure the original c4 is still hooked up. Then tap c11 into c14(c14 is directly below c4) leaving c14 hooked up as well. Now the wires for c4 and c14 should go into pins both c1, c4 and c11,c14 respectively. The wires for c1 and c11 on the harness side stay unhooked as they went to the sensor that is no longer there anyways. Hope that clears it up for ya!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I learn something new today
I dont remembet the exact details but the concept is pretty simple, when the motor is running the ecu is trying to compare the ckf sensor at the crank(which you no longer have) with ckp sensor from the dizzy which both output the same 12 pulses per crank revolution(or 24 per cam revolution) to make sure your timing belt is alligned correctly. All you need to do is to run the wires from the ckp from the distributor to both the ckp and the ckf and the ecu is happy. I dont have a pinout handy and you may want to search for a good obd2 pinout because the pin layout is a little more confusing on these and the pins I posted were only for obd2a, if you are obd2b it will be different. From what I can remember from that old post for obd2a you take the ckf(the crank sensor you dont have) which is pins 1 and 11(11 should be directly below 1) and cut them a few inches from the ecu, then take the ecu side and tap c1 into c4 but make sure the original c4 is still hooked up. Then tap c11 into c14(c14 is directly below c4) leaving c14 hooked up as well. Now the wires for c4 and c14 should go into pins both c1, c4 and c11,c14 respectively. The wires for c1 and c11 on the harness side stay unhooked as they went to the sensor that is no longer there anyways. Hope that clears it up for ya!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I learn something new today
08-18-2005, 05:20 AM
#18
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (Katman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Katman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">now all there needs to be done is tricking US OBD2 ecu into thinking there's a 2nd 02 sensor hooked up...</TD></TR></TABLE>
...or an FTP sensor...
Good **** on the CKF-to-CKP tech stuff fellas.
...or an FTP sensor...
Good **** on the CKF-to-CKP tech stuff fellas.
08-18-2005, 08:02 AM
#20
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (EE_Chris)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EE_Chris »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
...or an FTP sensor...
Good **** on the CKF-to-CKP tech stuff fellas. </TD></TR></TABLE>
doh yea!
...or an FTP sensor...
Good **** on the CKF-to-CKP tech stuff fellas.
</TD></TR></TABLE>doh yea!
08-19-2005, 08:45 AM
#21
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08-25-2005, 03:22 PM
#22
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Re: (FizzGiGG55123)
The OBD2A pins cited are C1 & C4 and C11 & C14. These pins are for CKF and CYP, respectively.
So which is it? CKP has the 24 teeth but occupies pins C2 and C12.
So which is it? CKP has the 24 teeth but occupies pins C2 and C12.
08-25-2005, 03:34 PM
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Re: (Eskay)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Eskay »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the pins noted above work. period</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thanks. That's interesting because the CYP is only a 4 tooth sensor. That's only 2 pulses per crankshaft revolution. I just wonder why/how it fools the ecu.
Thanks. That's interesting because the CYP is only a 4 tooth sensor. That's only 2 pulses per crankshaft revolution. I just wonder why/how it fools the ecu.
08-25-2005, 03:45 PM
#25
Re: (boomslang)
Well I have never been able to keep all terminology between the dizzy sensors straight but I do remember it being pins c1 and c4 with c11 and 14 directly below. I was going for the 24 tooth censor and from what info I could find searching on here real quick it led me to 4 and 14 but I never cracked open the dizzy to double check myself so that very well may be wrong. It worked for me perfectly though and now others too so maybe the ecu only compares it around each firing event to look for a missfire and the extra teeth are ignored. Maybe if anybody tries it next they should use 2 and 12 for good measure. I would investigate it myself if I had an obd2 car around.