SirRevvs

A couple of months ago my a/c compressor on my 94 civic took a ***** and blew the side out. Well I'm not real familiar with a/c systems so I got a qoute on how much it'd be to have it fixed at a shop. After they told me it was gonna be like $600 dollars I was like F you and decided to do it myself. Well the compressor that blew up on my civy was r134a and my buddy had one on his 92 hatch (ac worked perfectly) that was r12 and he said he'd sell it to me for $40 so I said hell yeah and we proceeded to rip apart his perfectly working a/c system. So I got his r12 compressor and put it on my car but then I realized that the fittings for both the high and low side were different from my r134a system. I can't remember but the r12 fittings were either bigger or smaller than my 134a's. So I had to have special a/c lines fabed and it cost me another $40 bucks. Then I decided hey I got this far I'll just go to autozone and get a recharge kit and do it myself. This is where I made a mistake. Those gauges that come in the recharge kit are *****. The kit came with 3 19 oz bottles of pre mixed oil and freon. Now I know that one 19 oz can would have been plenty but when I was recharging the gauge kept reading in the green so I put all three bottles in. So the first day the a/c belt squeeled like all hell at any rpm so I didn't use the a/c until I got it to the shop and we bled the a/c system to let some of the freon and oil out. Now it doesn't do it so bad but on hot days at about 3000 to 4000 rpm the belt will still squeel. The a/c gets cold (not as cold as it used to) but I'm still concerned it may be a little overcharged. From what I described above does that sound like overcharge is still the problem and if so what do I need to do to fix it. I'm on a budget so if you have any other ideas besides "take it to a shop and have it done right" (I can already see this part getting qouted like at least 5 times) please let me know. I have moderately good mechanical expertise so any suggestions will be helpful.

Cliff notes: 1994 civic ex

1. Changed out r134a compressor with r12 compressor and had new a/c lines fabed.

2. Did recharge with autozone pre-mixed oil, fr3on kit myself and accidently overcharged but bled some out.

3. A/c belt squeels over 3000 rpm but compressor came off car with working a/c.

4. Is the belt squeeling a sign that system is still over charged and if so what can I do to fix it myself (I'm a poh moh fo)

Thanx

Frozen E

I'm guessing you didn't pull it down into a vacuum when you changed out the compressor. You also didn't mention a new dryer. That's one of the main things you should have done. Also you should have made sure ALL the old oil was out of the compressor because the oil used with R-12 systems is not good bed fellows with the oil used in newer 134-A systems.
Anyway, you dumped 3.5 lbs. of refrigerant into a system designed to use a little over a pound. Your high pressure switch should have kicked your compressor out. If not you have a problem there.
Secondly, since your high pressure safety isn't working properly you put some serious stress on your compressor's internals. Possibility of some serious damage there. Not a definate, but it's a possibility.
Third, since you didn't pull a vacuum you have air and moisture in your system now. Air is bad because it's a non-condensable. It'll just sit in your condenser and not go anywhere. It'll cause fluctuating high side readings, 9 times out of 10 raise your pressure while it's at it, and can help the moisture in your system create an acid (which eats away at internals).

Anyway, that's all the possible bad news I have for you. From the sounds of it you should have that funky air/134-A mixture pulled out and have the system pulled down into a vacuum by a shop after you buy yourself a new filter dryer and install it. Maybe you can rent the vacuum machine. Not sure. It's not rocket science to operate one. Once you have it down in at least a 29"HG vacuum, shut the pump off after you close off your gauges and just let it sit for an hour or so. If the vacuum holds you're in the clear. If not, find the leak by pressurizing the system with either dry nitrogen or a can of 134A. Use a mix of water and dish soap to find the leak around connections and joints on your lines (a leak will make bubbles). Once you found the leak, pull everything back out and test the vacuum again. If it holds charge it up with the recomended weight of refrigerant and oil. Use google to find the exact amount.

But to answer you original question, YES you have an overcharge. See above for remedy.

98-integra

IslandSi do you have a job in the HVAC field?

Frozen E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98-integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">IslandSi do you have a job in the HVAC field?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

How'd you guess?

Solice

I have never EVER seen a better, more accutely answered post than this one. Incredible. I wish every member of this forum reads this and learns from this. you don't have to be a dick to respond to someone asking a question. Yeah, a little bit of sarcasm can be included, but talk intelligently, with enough detail, and hold all flames!!

Brilliant thread.

Bravo IslandSi

98-integra

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

How'd you guess? </TD></TR></TABLE>
lol cause i do too and thats he best post i've even seen about a/c problems, you type the samething i was getting ready to before i scrolled down and saw your post

SirRevvs

very very helpful thankyou. I had no idea you had to have a vaccuum on the system before you recharge. that is correct right you vaccuum the system and leave the vaccuum when you're recharging? anyway yeah i didn't replace the dryer (i know i shoulda have but like i said it was a budget job). It's not the the a/c doesn't work it does get cold and most of the time the belt doesn't squeel but when the a/c is on car idles so low that sometimes it kills the motor. So basically what your saying is that I need to have a professional do this right? I mean like you said it isn't rocket science and I know now the correct ammount of freon and oil to put in the system is like 17.4 oz's or something. What's that recharge machine called? My buddy might actually have one at his shop or like you said I can maybe rent one. I just don't like anyone else to work on my car. I do everything myself via trial/error at least that way I know exactly what's been done. PLus everything I do on the car is a learning experience and since I'm going to school starting in Jan to get my associate's in automotive technology then this is my career path anyhow and I like to learn as much as possible whether it be trouble shooting etc. but again thanx for the helpful insight much appreciated.

98-integra

yes you pull it down wait to make sure it doesnt move then charge

its called a vacuum pump

SirRevvs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98-integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes you pull it down wait to make sure it doesnt move then charge

its called a vacuum pump</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what it does is then is put a vacuum on the system to remove all moisture, freon, and oil? Then while the system is still under a vacuum you recharge? That would make sense I guess cause the recharge would even out the pressure inside the a/c system instead of having positive pressure right? I'm going to go ahead and buy a dryer off ebay as well. What sould I look for when buying a new dryer any particular specs, etc?

98-integra

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SirRevvs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So what it does is then is put a vacuum on the system to remove all moisture, freon, and oil? Then while the system is still under a vacuum you recharge? That would make sense I guess cause the recharge would even out the pressure inside the a/c system instead of having positive pressure right? I'm going to go ahead and buy a dryer off ebay as well. What sould I look for when buying a new dryer any particular specs, etc?</TD></TR></TABLE>

the vacuum pump does not remove the freon only the air and moisture, you have to get a recovery machine to remove the freon most people that work on car just slowly let it out but thats breaking the law i will leave it up to you how you plan on getting it out

after the pressure has evens out if you dont have the whole charge in then you need to close the gauges start the car and turn your a/c on let it run for 5-10 mins then start putting the rest in

for the dryer info check you book

SirRevvs

Well I don't have a book but I guess the only way to really go is oem so that's not an issue. but i didn't really understand this part of what you said:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98-integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
.....after the pressure has evens out if you dont have the whole charge in then you need to close the gauges start the car and turn your a/c on let it run for 5-10 mins then start putting the rest in .....</TD></TR></TABLE>


Modified by SirRevvs at 5:32 PM 10/18/2004

98-integra

after you are done pulling a vacuum and it holds you are going to unhook the vacuum pump and hook the r134a up. open the can and let the pressure in the can might equal out with the perssure inside the system before you have the whole charge in if it does then you need to start the car turn the a/c on let it run for a few mins then put the rest of the charge in

when the a/c is off the pressure is the same, when you turn it on the pressure on the high side will be alot higher then the pressure on the low side so you will beable to finsh charging because the pressure in the can will be higher then the pressure on the low side

EBP_SI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98-integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the vacuum pump does not remove the freon only the air and moisture, you have to get a recovery machine to remove the freon most people that work on car just slowly let it out but thats breaking the law i will leave it up to you how you plan on getting it out

</TD></TR></TABLE>

not to mention what HFCs CFCs and HCFC's will do to your health. btw...even after you recover the refrigerant there will still be some quantity in the lines and putting the vacuum pump on there will remove that refrigerant as well as the moisture and non condensibles.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for the dryer info check you book</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd look into getting a brand new drier. In my experience once a drier has been used, scrap it and anytime the system has been opened you change the drier.

One problem i can see is if there is was/is moisture in the system it has gotten into the oil. i'm not sure which oil is in the system but i know its not alkylbenzene. either way, polyalkylene and polyolester are both highly hygroscopic and will absorb moisture. once the oil and moisture have mixed its pretty much garbage. if thats the case you're gonna have to find a way to remove all the oil and replace it with new (MFG spec) oil. good luck with this but being in the HVAC field i know the risks involved and i would not advise doing this yourself bascially because of the potential health risks involved.

Frozen E

Wow, I have an HVAC family here.
I think between all of us we kinda hit everything. The dryer can be bought at just about any car parts store. It should run you in the neighborhood of $20-30. Not too bad. It's kind of a must-do thing anytime you open up a system. I do it everytime I open up a small reach-in refrigerator cooling system all the way up to a big *** 100 ton chiller we use at the hospital here on base. Good cheap insurance.
I know you didn't want to hear this, but I suggest you take the car to a good reputable shop. Trial and error isn't a good way to learn about car AC's I hate to tell you. It can get real expensive really fast and you'll be kicking yourself for not letting a shop do it in the first place. If you go to a good shop the techs might be able to explain to you what they're doing, why they're doing it, and why you stuff wasn't working right in the first place. Learn from somebody that knows their stuff.
Anyway, good luck with the AC. Don't hesitate to ask more question.

to my new found HVAC family.

SirRevvs

F it. I'll learn all this **** when I start going to school so for now I'm gonna have someone who knows what their doing do it for me. So now my question to all the HVAC certified guys is, how much do you think this will cost me assuming that I know someone that is HVAC certified with all the right equipment. So basically what would you charge an aquantance of yours to do all this for (besides changing the drier I can do that myself) and in the meantime will my a/c system be ok assuming that i don't turn it on. Is there anything you reccomend I do in the next week until I can get a pro to fix it? Can I leave the belt on or should I take it off etc?

Frozen E

If you were a friend of mine I'd make you buy a case of beer and lend me a hand when I needed it. Honestly this job shouldn't take more than a couple of hours (assuming that you get the system pulled down into a vacuum 3 times and charged back up with nitrogen each time).
If you were Joe Nobody off the street asking me to do this it'd probably run you a couple hundred bucks. For a friend, like I said, case of beer or about $50 plus parts.

98-integra

removing the oil and freon would be a good idea the longer its in there the more time the acid has time to eat way the compr. if you know someone that can do this for you on the side then get them to do it they shouldnt charge you much there nothing to it, it just take time


EDIT beat me to it i type to slow

SirRevvs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you were a friend of mine I'd make you buy a case of beer and lend me a hand when I needed it. Honestly this job shouldn't take more than a couple of hours (assuming that you get the system pulled down into a vacuum 3 times and charged back up with nitrogen each time).
If you were Joe Nobody off the street asking me to do this it'd probably run you a couple hundred bucks. For a friend, like I said, case of beer or about $50 plus parts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would actually like to do the whole thing myself and just have an HVAC friend standing by to "tell" me what to do. But seriously this is gonna take a couple hours? Damn. is that because you have to pull a vacuum and wait for it or is that actually like a couple hours of work?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you were a friend of mine I'd make you buy a case of beer and lend me a hand when I needed it...... For a friend, like I said, case of beer or about $50 plus parts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Beer ain't a issue at all being that I work at a liquor store

98-integra

to do it right and do the triple vacuum like he's talking about yes it will take a few hours

SirRevvs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WD1V

Is this a good deal for a drier?

98-integra

i'm not sure what the price is for then in the store but that doesnt seem like a bad price to me

EBP_SI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by IslandSi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I open up a small reach-in refrigerator cooling system all the way up to a big *** 100 ton chiller we use at the hospital here on base. Good cheap insurance.</TD></TR></TABLE>

pffff..100 ton...thats baby stuff in toronto i've seen lots of buildings with 1000+ ton machines.

I agree that you should remove the refrigerant and as much of the oil as soon as possible. POE oil and moisture = acid. after that put a holding charge of a few ounces of dry nitrogen. just enough nitrogen to bring it a little bit above atmospheric pressure.

its also wouldnt hurt to think about the quantity of oil thats in the system. from the factory theres a set charge of oil and that doesnt all stay in the compressor. it will get hung up in various bends in teh evap coil and in low spots. it'll also go to the coldest spot of the system like the refrigerant. if you keep charging the system with teh refrigerant and oil mix then you could not only be overcharging the refrigerant aspect of the system but also teh oil. this can be jsut as bad or even worse because once the system loads up you'll get a big slug of oil coming back to the compressor and smashy smashy

EBP_SI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SirRevvs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WD1V

Is this a good deal for a drier?</TD></TR></TABLE>

i didnt read the whole thing but make sure is a brand new sealed drier. being sealed and new is very important because the desicant in the drier will abosb moisture from the air and then its pretty much useless.

SirRevvs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by EBP_SI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

pffff..100 ton...thats baby stuff in toronto i've seen lots of buildings with 1000+ ton machines.

I agree that you should remove the refrigerant and as much of the oil as soon as possible. POE oil and moisture = acid. after that put a holding charge of a few ounces of dry nitrogen. just enough nitrogen to bring it a little bit above atmospheric pressure.

its also wouldnt hurt to think about the quantity of oil thats in the system. from the factory theres a set charge of oil and that doesnt all stay in the compressor. it will get hung up in various bends in teh evap coil and in low spots. it'll also go to the coldest spot of the system like the refrigerant. if you keep charging the system with teh refrigerant and oil mix then you could not only be overcharging the refrigerant aspect of the system but also teh oil. this can be jsut as bad or even worse because once the system loads up you'll get a big slug of oil coming back to the compressor and smashy smashy </TD></TR></TABLE>

ahhhh si senior, muchos gracias

98-integra

damn that must be a big building cause we've installed the biggest chiller in Va ( at the time might be a bigger one now) and it was 2100 tons it did most of the college where we installed